Engine Drivetrain 2nd Gen S Tuner options

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by Guapish_Fliver, Jul 3, 2016.

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  1. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Get it right the first time so you won't need to post... "It Blowed Up"
     
  2. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Now that's a very excellent point !! :Thumbsup:
     
  3. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Blown up real good

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  4. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    If you look at the Borg Warner or Garratt sites they will teach you how to read a turbocharger map. It isn't that hard. Borg Warner's site is very easy to use and gives you some guidance on estimating volumetric efficiency. A hour or two going over their sites will be a big help.
     
  5. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    I gotta check this forum more often --- I missed a lot of opportunity for comments. I'll probably overlook a couple in this single reply.

    1st, I'm really sorry to hear about the OP's grief with a tune. Sounds like it's a common hazard with the MAF delete version --- trial and error? OK, what to do next??? Op's gotta make some decisions --- cut losses and go for a different tuner, or hold Arric's feet (or something else) to the fire, and have him make good with his tuner. Easier if Arric "arranged" the tune, instead of the OP paying the tuner directly. There's a lot to be said for living close to a tuner --- Manic has 1 - 2 in "da wess".

    Manic's taking a lot of heat here. I understand his stage 1 & 2 are about as "canned" as you can get --- most "mail-order" tunes are. His stage 3 & 4 are done with data logs, and other sources of info. My stage 4 took 2 days in Eurotechs shop, and was finished up with a dyno pull for verification. I've also heard about some Manic stage 3 ½ tunes. Doesn't sound very "canned" to me. My stage 4 includes a positive pressure waste gate Garrett and 30PSI boost --- nothing canned about that! And his reference to a 360HP tune is probably mine. There might be others, but I seriously doubt it. This HP range is shown on at least 2 different dynos in 2 different states. Charts were posted on this and other forums. Is it "dangerous" because of "tuning shortcuts"? Possibly, but how many Manic clients have reported damage, caused by these "shortcuts"?

    As for JMTC turbos --- I'm told that when I posted my 312HP chart 1 ½ years ago, it was considered by many to be the most out of any USA R56. Then someone in FL posted a 320HP dyno chart. He was tops in the country 'til he blew his JMTC turbo a couple months later. Just one of many horror stories I've heard about. PS --- the 312HP was the result of a custom AP dyno tune, done in 2011 --- unfortunately, no longer available.

    And Jan --- he was there during my 312 dyno pull --- 2015 ThunderHill. I was crabbing to him about the Garrett CEL's I lived with. He suggested a stand-alone ECU, Borg-Warner turbo, and injectors. Sounds like I'd still be waiting for the stand-alone. BTW, Manic eliminated the CEL --- P2884 and P2885 --- haven't seen them since, and I haven't changed driving habits. I respect Jan's tuning capabilities, but if proposed hardware isn't readily available, look elsewhere for a tune.

    So, Guapish_Fliver, I wish you luck with whatever path you choose.
     
  6. Guapish_Fliver

    Guapish_Fliver New Member

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    #26 Guapish_Fliver, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
    Obw, are you able to achieve 30 psi because of your manual boost control?

    How many miles have you put on your stage 4?

    Were you having problems with boost spikes or anything? Any other problems? I can't tell you how many manic clients have blown up but I've been told by more than one source that they have witnessed it, idk. Haven't seen it for myself so I have to rely on what I'm told. I would be willing to bet people get pretty bashful when they blow up their car and keep it to themselves.

    What I do know is that I tear stuff up constantly. It's just the way I am, and I'm not sure that any type of tune will grant me immunity from detonation. My car is bound to detonate, and when it does I would like to keep my engine safety features intact or left alone... Like I said in my build thread, I've sent rods through fully forged wisecos on a 40-50 hp motor powering through pings and have found pre ignition to be the number one killer in my experiences. So, I would like my car to detect this condition instantly and cut fuel to the cylinders to keep things, let's say, intact...

    I can't find any of your Dynos, can you dig a few up and post or pm them to me?

    Manic is not out of the question but it is too far for me to drive to eurotech. I mean if you dropped the car off, data logged, and tuned to Dynos that sounds pretty custom to me, maybe pm me what you paid for all that.

    Stay off that NAM OBW!
     
  7. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    #27 oldbrokenwind, Jul 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
    Maybe someday ---
     
  8. Guapish_Fliver

    Guapish_Fliver New Member

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    #28 Guapish_Fliver, Jul 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
    Alrighty since I believe in transparency I will disclose that meanwhile, I have been sucking the last drop of maf-less tune Kool aid juice. I was vainly clawing at the idea that it would somehow work for me but it doesn't. Anyway, next stop is Jzw tuning for a custom job obviously...

    I received a second speed density tune attempt in the mail recently and fired the fliver up to see if anything changed. Something changed for sure, possibly a step in the right direction but still complete ass. I will attempt to explain symptoms strictly for entertainment value as I don't really expect any help on this, I've already been told I need to put it on a rack and dyno tune.

    The car now is schizophrenic and very un predictable. Overall much stronger than before but doing strange things. I've been told this would happen with speed density tunes but have now proven it to myself to some extent. I must have a high threshold for pain or something. Anyway, I have explored the ever changing powerband, as much as I could on the street, and found that most of the time the car will build boost nice and dump boost around the meat of the load demand or higher boost pressure. I don't have a boost gauge so I don't know exactly what pressure it's dumping boost at. The car once or twice made a "miracle pull" as I called it and actually felt really strong and pulled through the powerband nice. The miracle pulls made seldom, short, "heavy metal" like appearances and vanished shortly after. Sometimes, it would let out of the hole like a gutless turd and take forever to build boost at WOT. Very inconsistent and actually pretty entertaining to me to some extent. I had a little chuckle to myself because It's like a complete mystery what's going to happen after each stoplight. People were looking at me crazy because the car looks stock but the turbo makes a huge racket now building boost and then dumps it in an interesting sounding fashion while the car is still pulling. Pretty funny.

    Next problem/s, I had some boys down the street pull codes again and found another p0100 mass air bank a code. I also found one that said something like " throttle position 19.6%, relative adjustment 8.6%. Then it said something about volumetric efficiency was 362 grams per second air at 1250 rpm. Idk.

    I have no idea what that means except that I again came to the conclusion that the tune is ass. I then cleared the codes and they haven't came back yet. Wierd.

    Now I'll get the power gate programmer and throw the stupid maf back on and drop my car off at Jzw. I'm not dense enough to buy a power gate on top of my jmtc tune cost for a jmtc tune. Makes no sense. I could buy a Jzw tune that COMES WITH the power gate for 300 bucks more and have both Jzw and jmtc tunes on the tool. Also a slot for the e85 corrosive, oil shearing, corn juice when I'm feeling extra destructive.

    Jmtc wants me to buy a power gate programmer so they can keep throwing tunes at it via email. Fascinating. I'll try to attempt to get jmtc to refund my money for his tune. Hopefully he does, if not I'll get the tool from Jzw and keep a slot open on the power gate to keep trying jmtc tunes until one works and compare numbers.

    It would suck if I had to buy 2 tunes from different tuners but it is what it is, Im the one who chose to frankenstein this car. At least I would get to blow up the real world results online, the days of **** service remaining in the dark are over, it's 2016 now. There are forums.:Thumbsup:
     
  9. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    No Boost/vacuum gauge? But they are so cheap and easy to install!

    Also, they give good real time information for when you are messing with a tune.
     
  10. Guapish_Fliver

    Guapish_Fliver New Member

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    #30 Guapish_Fliver, Jul 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
    Any suggestions? Link?

    Is there a different style one than the bsh pcv port blocker?

    One that hooks in somewhere else?

    Do the obd2 ones work? I was thinking about a p3 vent gauge...
     
  11. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    Here's a link to the type of adapter I use --- http://altaperformance.com/i-14007154-boost-port-adapter-for-r56-turbo-engine.html --- mounts directly under the intake manifold MAP sensor.

    Since I have an extra one available, never used (probably not an Alta version I don't remember), PM me an offer I can't refuse and it's yours. Gauges are a different story --- choices depend on lotsa personal preferences, i.e., color, mounting location, units measured, range, etc.
     
  12. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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  13. Guapish_Fliver

    Guapish_Fliver New Member

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    #33 Guapish_Fliver, Aug 7, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
    I got an auto lite gauge because it was cheaper.

    Jzw has had my car for a few weeks and I'll give a brief progress report of what he has said so far in bulletin format:

    -jzw said the previous tuner had not changed any "limiters" but the red line, which was set at 12k rpm. (Whoa) :frown2:

    -car was having problems "clenching" spark under high boost on both heat range 7 and 8 plugs so gap was tightened to .26 and a fourth new set of range 7 plugs was installed (OE).

    -car still dumps boost under heavy load about 3500 rpm and various waste gate preload settings have been tried to no avail.

    -Jzw thinks the turbo needs a 30mm blow off but jmtc said it doesn't.

    -Jzw thinks the turbo might need a beefy diverter valve/spring but jmtc said it doesn't

    -jmtc says it's a tune/computer issue telling it to dump boost/cut fuel/retard timing and Jzw thinks it's mechanical involving blowoff or diverter...

    -Jzw has been rolling around data logging on the street and said "fuel stays rock solid at .86 lambda or 12.6 afr". So it's spark not a lean ping like I thought...

    I'm just glad I'm not working on the car right now. The car is doing its job annoying someone else for now, it wasn't quite as simple as Jzw thought it was going to be lmao... Hopefully it is a mechanical issue that way I don't buy a bunch of extra parts for nothing, sigh.

    It's pretty funny after talking to both how neither tuner thinks it's possible for the other one to get the job done. Anyway, carry on...
     
  14. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
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    I read that the ECU will dump boost when it gets up to 22 or 23 psi.
     
  15. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    ViPEC needed
     
  16. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    Couple posts ago, you indicated the MAF was going back in. I'm hoping you were able to get it reinstalled, and JZW is doing a more conventional tune (repair?). Considering the grief you had with JMTC and their tuner, I'm surprised you're even thinking about their input.

    DneprDave, ECU can be tuned to accept 30+ PSI boost --- without using Boost (or Fuel) Cut Defenders, at least that's what Manic did for me.

    Dave.O, does Vipec finally have a unit for the R56?
     
  17. Guapish_Fliver

    Guapish_Fliver New Member

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    Yes the maf is back in

    The vipec is in testing not out yet

    Jzw said the scanner said 27 psi but manual gauge will verify. I was told 30 psi is possible but not safe without running ethanol tune or methanol injection. The car needs to be running right first so the boost is turned down to around the point where it starts clenching or blowing out spark under high boost. Again, manual gauge will verify exactly what pressure this is.

    I called jmtc to ask about the turbo and if the DV was good to go for high boost and he said it needed nothing and said it was a tune issue... I don't really trust what anyone says at this point that's why I gave the car to Jzw in person to let him figure it out. I guess next up is a 30mm blowoff and heavy DV diaphragm and spring or whatever
     
  18. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    I'm using an adjustable external BOV (or DV), by TurboSmart, and it's cranked up about as tight as it can get without using the supplied washers. Every now and then, at 30psi, I'll still get a BOV code. Just not often enough to add a washer or two. It's not a limp mode code, just a nuisance code, letting me know I'm lazy.
     
  19. AWD_Rally

    AWD_Rally Member

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    Did you get all the tuning sorted out? I was also looking into speed density tuning but seem to be limited with the N18 engine (Countryman All4).

    I run the 47mm turbo with a "stage 3" manic tune. Been well over a year now. I'll actually be upgrading to a 50mm turbo soon...
     
  20. Guapish_Fliver

    Guapish_Fliver New Member

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    Ya but I'm having turbo probs.

    Who is going to do the speed density tune for you?

    Jm turbo was never able to get my tuning sorted out. I paid prior to sending the ecu to them so no refund for me... If that's who your considering I'd run...

    The tuner who helped me get everything sorted with a maf tune after I gave up on them said that several settings were far from safe such as a 12k rpm redline. :crazy:
     

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