1st Gen R52 Cooper Convertible Help! Convertible Top Non Functional.....

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by martinb, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. martinb

    martinb New Member

    Feb 1, 2016
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    Greetings!

    I’ve just joined this forum and have a problem with the top on my ’06 Cabriolet. The top stopped working. Entirely. And none of the usual culprits seem to be the cause.

    First off, the car: ’06 Cabriolet, every possible JCW option including LSD, strut brace and aero kit. Brakes upgraded to Stoptech slotted rotors all around, all SS lines, Hawk HP+ in front, HPS in rear. Schroth four point harness installed for track days along with NM rear lower control arms. ATI damper. Forge coolant tank. Etc.

    The problem: All of a sudden, one morning, the top on my '06 JCW cabriolet stopped working completely. The light on the top switch does not light when I press the button and the top makes no noise. It's like it's completely dead. Even the sunroof won't work. I've checked the luggage tray switch and that's depressed as it should be. And even if it was open, the sunroof portion should still work, which it doesn’t. The rear hatch switch works and turns the inside light on and off when it's depressed so I know that works. And the front hood/bonnet switch seems to be fine and is properly engaged with the latch. The open bonnet/hatch dash warning light is not on while driving. What's weird is that the open bonnet/hatch dash warning light lights up after I turn the ignition off AND open the door. When I do that, the warning light on the dash will flash 5 times (along with the chime) and at the same time, the red light on the top button will also flash, though at a slightly faster pace than the dash light. Once the dash warning light has flashed 5 times, everything shuts off. The open bonnet/hatch dash warning light will also go on and flash 5 times when I first open the door but the red light on the top button will not always flash with it, or if it does flash, may only flash once or twice.

    One more thing of note is that when I press the down button for the top, I can hear a very faint click coming from the left rear of the car where the hydraulic pump is. There is also a click from the same location when I press the up button. So, I do have power to the circuit.

    I’ve also confirmed that the connector to the sunroof motor is properly connected. And I looked around for any other obvious problems. I’ve even disconnected the battery ground for about 15 minutes and then reconnected it in an effort to reset things. (Perhaps I didn’t leave it disconnected long enough as I didn’t lose my radio settings and I didn’t need to reinitialize my windows.)

    What I have not done yet is to pull the left side interior trim in the trunk to check wiring, connections, etc., and to see if I can isolate the source of the clicking when I press the top button.

    I drive with the top down almost all the time. Like daily, even in the winter, as long as it's not raining. And not being able to put the top down is really bugging me now. I’m hoping I can get some clues from folks here so I can avoid taking my car to a specialist or worse, the dealer.

    One more thing, I had a problem with the rear hatch recently where one of the wires that goes between the body and the hatch door broke inside that rubber boot thingy. I couldn't open the hatch the normal way and had to crawl over the back seat. I pulled everything apart and spliced in a new section of wire and restored normal function. I don't think any problems there would affect the top function, though. The hatch works normally for opening and closing and it unlocks with the key fob normally as well.

    So….does anyone have any ideas that I haven’t covered already?

    Cheers!

    Martin
     
  2. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Welcome to MA! One of our convertible guys will be along to help.
     
  3. Goldsmithy

    Goldsmithy MINI Alliance Ambassador
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    Troubleshooting electronics is NOT my thing...but, have you checked the condition of your battery? Seems like MINIs are particular on their voltage...
     
  4. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Welcome, thanks for joining Motoring Alliance, the FUN and Friendly MINI Community.

    Have you checked the fuses?
     
  5. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Mine did pretty much exactly the same thing for a while, once.

    First thing: reinitialize your side windows. For each window, run it all the way down, and continue holding the button for like five more seconds. Then run it all the way up, and hold the button for five more seconds. Do this for each side. Then confirm that the button that runs the rear windows works as it should for all four Windows - that a tap will put them all down, and that holding it will run all four up.

    Then try the top again.
     
  6. Friskie

    Friskie Well-Known Member

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    The little button in the upper left hand corner of the boot is notorious for having a very short throw. Try adding one of those little felt stick on stool leg coasters to the opposing spot on the inside of the boot hatch...voice of experience.
     
  7. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    I hear you also need to be facing Oxford, England whilst performing this operation for maximum effect.
     
  8. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    And the OP is correct... if it was the shelf switch, the sunroof will still work. The only thing I'm aware of that will do what you're describing is bad fuse, bad relay (they are hidden behind the left side panel in the back seat), or the convertible top computer calling "no joy" because it can't get a good window status from the body control module. Also possible the sunroof motor is bad, since that's the first thing that needs to actuate and if it doesn't, nothing else will work.

    If you can find a local club member or independent shop with the BMW INPA scan tool, it should be able to interrogate the convertible module and may provide a specific error (in cryptic german that must be translated).
     
  9. martinb

    martinb New Member

    Feb 1, 2016
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    The battery is in excellent shape and relatively new. And having the engine running while trying to lower the top does nothing. But thanks!
     
  10. martinb

    martinb New Member

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    Fuses are good and there's power to the system. The red light on the switch does flash when I open the door to get out of the car (as described in my initial post) and when I press the button to try putting the top down, I do hear a click at the back left of the car, in the region of the hydraulic pump.

    I did reinitialize the front windows but with a slightly different technique. I'll try yours. They do function properly, though and do drop down a bit as they should when I open the door.

    Rear window switch works as it should. However, it's never been a single touch and release to put them all the way down. I have to hold the button to put them down. 'Always been that way.

    Tried that, though I used a wad of paper towel to make sure it was pressed in sufficiently. No luck.

    England?? Where's that? :biggrin5:

    Fuse is good, though I could try replacing it in case there's some high resistance through it. Though usually they're either good or blown.

    Bad relay is certainly a possibility. I plan on removing the left side panel to get at whatever is mounted there and if the relay is easily removed, I'll be checking it for sure.

    I've also thought that the control module or perhaps one of the Hall sensors has gone bad. But I want to explore other possibilities before I dive into those things.

    I'm thinking I might simply disconnect the connector to the sunroom motor and power it directly off the battery. If that works then I've narrowed it down just a bit more.

    And getting a scan tool reading off the car might, indeed, be helpful. Thanks for that one!

    Cheers!
     
  11. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    That's a good plan, to test the sunroof motor.
    If the windows are doing the drop-down properly, then they're probably initialized fine. But I'd do it again, just in case.
     
  12. martinb

    martinb New Member

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    Blimey: Nice car! I'd love to have a real roll bar for my carbrio, but I'd like to design it so I can keep the rear seat and remove the bar when I don't need it for a track day. In the meantime, I've upgraded the brakes all around and added aftermarket lower rear control arms. I'm hoping that with an aftermarket seat, I can find the room to squeeze a roll bar between the back of the seat and the front of the rear seat. I'm thinking I can bolt it to the same spot that the seat belt bolts to. And use some of the other rear seatbelt anchor locations. Once that's done, I'd be looking at a set of Vorshlag camber plates, a good set of coil overs, and a rear sway bar. It's fun enough as it is, though. My first track day was actually a 3 day event last summer at Searspoint in California. It's a drivers track where horsepower isn't necessarily king. I was running with the Nothern California Shelby Club and it was great fun humiliating a bunch of 500+ HP Shelby Mustangs.
     
  13. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Good luck with your roll bar design. I think you could make something fit as you describe, but I doubt the guys around here would pass it in tech inspection, and our primary track here (VIR) is very picky about rollover protection in cabrios. I'm also not convinced those seat belt anchor points are all strong enough to take the weight of the car and dynamic loading from a crash. That takes a lot more strength than must holding a dummy in place during a crash...
     
  14. martinb

    martinb New Member

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    I did another initialization using the technique described here. No luck.
     
  15. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    At this point, I'd need to scan the CVM to see if it had any clues...
     
  16. martinb

    martinb New Member

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    Blimey,

    I've posted another thread about the "best" OBD2 scanners, but I thought I'd ask you as well.

    Do you know of a good scanner that will read the body and convertible top codes on my Mini? My preference would be a wireless one that works with Apple products, but I also have an old PC running XP Pro and even an all in one unit would be acceptable. I'd just like to be able to read and erase ALL the codes my Mini can throw.

    Here's the other thread: http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/cooper-s/27081-best-odb2-scanner.html

    Thanks!
     
  17. Angib

    Angib New Member

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    ...and you throw the pinch of salt over your left shoulder, not the right, right?
     
  18. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Correct !! :Thumbsup:
     
  19. martinb

    martinb New Member

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    Well, I got my Schwaben scan tool and, unfortunately, it did not show any error codes in the convertible top. Both control modules checked out fine. So, since I am hearing a click in the back when I press the top down or up button (likely the relay supplying current to the sunroof motor), I'm thinking that there's some break in the circuit between the relay and the sunroof motor. That's going to be the first thing I look at. I'll check for current at the connector when I press the button and will likely also jumper power to the sunroof motor directly from the battery. That way I'll know if the sunroof motor works. If no power to the motor, then I'll start tracing things back. It may be as simple as a broken wire like the one I found going to my rear hatch release. One would think that the wiring would hold up longer than that, but I do use the top a lot.
     
  20. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    ^ That's a good plan.
     

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