Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S Forge R53 intercooler (Brief Review)

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by narvarr, May 23, 2015.

  1. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

    Nov 8, 2014
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    Last year, I picked up a Forge Intercooler off of EBay. I had been watching it for a while and after it relisted for the 7th time, I decided to make an offer of $300 against The listed price of $550. Offer was accepted and I took delivery of it about 4 days later.
    The box was a bit beat up when it arrived (thanks UPS) but the seller did an awesome job of packing the intercooler and wrapping it in 4 layers of bubble wrap.
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    Well, I've had the Forge Intercooler on for about a week now and I can tell you first hand that it KICKS BUTT! Looking at the way it sits in the scoop, the first thing that comes to mind is, "there's no way it's going to cool better than stock.
    Well, to a certain degree, it does. IAT's on the stock IC ran about 20 degrees higher than ambient temperature, the Forge unit runs about the same. But here's the kicker, the Forge unit seems to flow way more air. The amount of torque it has now is awesome! It pulls hard all the way through redline now and my boost pressure is up to 12.8 PSI (up from 11.5 PSI) on a stock pulley! I did a 4th gear pull getting on the interstate from 40 MPH and I was 10 MPH deeper into the triple digits by redline than I was before. I let off and slowed down to the speed limit, glancing over at the scangauage, my intake temperature was up to 129 degrees, but by the time I reached my exit a mile later, my temps were back down to normal. Low end seems to be improved as well. Pulling off in first gear, I can ease off the clutch at 1500 RPM and it just pulls away without shuddering. Usually I'd have to Rev to about 2200 RPM to achieve that.
    So far, I'm impressed with its performance, but we'll see how it does once the Texas heat hits.
     
  2. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    #2 narvarr, May 23, 2015
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
    Here are a few more pictures of it installed. uploadfromtaptalk1432400239651.JPG uploadfromtaptalk1432400258294.JPG uploadfromtaptalk1432400281112.JPG uploadfromtaptalk1432400297259.JPG uploadfromtaptalk1432400313245.JPG [​IMG]
     
  3. WolfGTI

    WolfGTI Active Member

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    First of all - if it flowed that much more air your psi would drop. Flow is the inverse of pressure.

    Secondly the gear ratios are fixed so at 6000 rom in 4th you will always do the same speed. The difference is in how quickly you get there.

     
  4. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    Ummm, pressure sensor is down stream of the intercooler so shouldn't it be the opposite?

    Second, if I get there faster and the car is still pulling instead of running out of steam, wouldn't I actually go faster?
     
  5. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    No.......gearing is fixed.
     
  6. WolfGTI

    WolfGTI Active Member

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    The pressure increases because the intercooler is less efficient and flows less - it bottlenecks the air. If you increase the flow the boost will drop - as evidenced when you put a big valve head or increase the displacement of the motor. Remember the s/c pulley hasn't changed - it is still moving the same amount of air.

     
  7. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    You are not taking into account where the bottle neck is and where pressure readings are being taken. I am using a scangauge and it takes the reading at the intake manifold. If I have a restriction before the pressure sensor, getting rid of that the restriction will make the pressure go up. If I measure before that restriction, removing that restriction will make the measurement go down. At this point, the new restriction is now the head. If I was to install a big valve head, then my pressure readings would go back down again.
    Okay, here's an example. I have 2 water pumps in line with each other connected by a 2" pipe. Both are running at the same speed with 40 psi measured between them. If I install a 1" valve between them, where will you see the pressure drop? After the valve and before the second pump right? The pressure before the valve will increase. If I replace the 1" valve with a 2" valve to match the piping, I will see a pressure increase after the valve. Same scenerio applies. Pump #1 is the Supercharger and pump #2 is the motor.
     
  8. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    Yes, gearing is fixed, but my point is, power was tapering off before I reached redline, meaning I wasn't gaining much momentum after a certain point. Before It was like going WOT then backing off on the accelerator a few hundred RPM before redline. Now, it actually pulls all the way to redline.
     
  9. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    ^^^This.

    This is my one and only concern with the big ass FMIC and the TVS. The TVS should push enough air for it not be too much of a loss, we'll find out soon. It's not an issue with the R53 turbo, or the Rotrex, I'm praying it won't be for the TVS.
     
  10. Savvy

    Savvy Well-Known Member
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    #10 Savvy, May 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2015
    (Edited) No personal attacks..as you say.

    ...... just let it go.
     
  11. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    Wow, I thought this was the FUN and Friendly MINI site...
     
  12. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Meth fixes everything... :devil:


    FYI - FUN does not stand for fun.
     
  13. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    Don't worry, I got plans for meth Dave. Already tapped the intake for it. [​IMG]
     
  14. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    ^^^^ good :Thumbsup:

    I am sorry to say any NON OEM intercooler is NOT any better than the OEM GP inter cooler. This have been beat to death over the years ever since the aftermarket started making them. The best set up for a stock Heaton M45 blower with any % pulley is the GP I\C with Meth. That's why I have the set up on my car until I go TVS.

    ALL aftermarket I\C are good at making one "Hail Mary" run on a dyno to show "great increase in power buy its all marketing BS because Non of them recover from heat soak like the OEM ones.
     
  15. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    I understand it's not up to GP performance, but so far, it is performing better than the stock for me. Not everyone can afford a GP intercooler and I'm just documenting my personal experience.

    As far as heat soak, I have driven with this unit in stop and go Dallas traffic for a week now and it actually recovers from heat soak fairly quickly. But, we're still not up to our usual 95+ degree heat here yet so the jury is still out.
     
  16. Savvy

    Savvy Well-Known Member
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    It is. But physics, is.... well..... physics. You got the correct explanation regarding the errors in your reasoning and dismissed it. There are a lot of people who have been at it longer than you or I.
     
  17. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    ^^This, again.

    There is only one other top mount IC I know of proven better than the GP, and it's not the Forge. And if you think the GP IC is expensive, this one will twist your twin berries many times over.

    its not like people haven't been trying to find the perfect top mount IC since, like, 2002....
     
  18. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Ok I hate to open my mouth and show how stupid I am but....TVS?
     
  19. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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  20. narvarr

    narvarr Active Member

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    I have 19 years experience as a maintenance technician in manufacturing. I deal with trouble shooting 600 psi high pressure air compressors and water flow for our water Bottling process. I know fluid flow and how to identify where restrictions are.
    As far as physics go, flow and pressure don't become inverse of each other until the flow limitations of the piping or ductwork is reached. At that point pressure goes up but flow doesn't. An intercooler that shows a pressure drop after installation is actually restrictig flow. This is evident because the motor is consuming air at a faster rate than what can pass through the intercooler creating the pressure drop on the back side of the intercooler where we measure boost. Once you get better flow through the intercooler, pressure on the back side will go up and the pressure on the front side will go down until it equalizes across the entire system. Once that is achieved, the head itself becomes your new bottleneck.
     

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