Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S G-Force Chip - Real or Rip Off

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by Nathan, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    #1 Nathan, Aug 17, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
    Since this subject comes up now and again and is the source of hijacked threads I've created one just to discuss this alleged useful item.

    The product MINI COOPER G-Force Peformance Chip

    My contention is this is a product designed for one thing only, to part a fool and his money. Now I've never seen, purchased or used the product in any way. My opinion is based solely on the years of experience I have in modding cars, reading and writing ad copy and just the general issues I find with their site.

    To whit...

    They advertise a chip is available for many vehicles that have never even seen an ECU. To me this means they used a generic vehicle database listing and didn't even bother to take the time remove the entries that not valid. If they do not attend to this simple detail do you think they really take the time to create a "tune" that is best for your car?

    Where do you find an AIT Sensor on a 1973 Triumph Spitfire? Or a 68 BMW 2002? we can back further too. How about a 56 Hudson Hornet 4DR Sedan? That 1950's era Porsche 356, yeah, that has a need for this item. Every one of these examples are on their site.

    The other problem I have is how this works. From the site:

    Two wires that plug into the AIT (Air Intake Temperature) sensor. From my years of experience to me this means they are adding a resistor of some type in line to fool the ECU into thinking the intake air is colder than actual. Is this really how you want gain more power, by tricking the ECU?

    [IMGl]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0asCGFiOWVgB32nZpL_dLkYP3-psXCm5r-sZhH-CVIaseNyE&t=1&usg=__AzXCmxWCKswp1yqTSHQ_brQ09wE=[/IMGl]Assuming I am correct and this device is only a resistor it is horrendously overpriced. From what I can tell doing some searches you get this "chip" with two wires coming off the box, 2 quick connectors and 2 zip ties. Something along the lines of the items displayed on the left.

    Someone on the zcar forums purchased one from SLR motorsports, another company that advertises the same thing and has a very similar look and feel to the site as G-Force has. Look at what they got. Yeah, 15 cents worth of parts at best.

    [​IMG]

    Other items that toss a red flag to me:

    The domain is hidden when ownership is checked. Makes it harder to go after them. Do companies that have little to hide when it comes to contact info do the same thing, very rarely.

    Do a search for reviews. Educate yourself, but I still contend that the $69 spent on this would be about as useful as buying hurricane insurance for your house in Manitoba.
     
  2. JC55MINI

    JC55MINI New Member

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    I don't know anything about this product. But.... MSRP- $399.99 and they're selling for $69.99. Come on, really???

    How can that be legit? The laws of supply and demand still exist right?
     
  3. YesIFit

    YesIFit New Member

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    I share Nathan's views, and not simply due to "internet rhetoric." Although the following seemed pretty damning:

    My views ($.02, opinion, etc...):

    1) G-Force, SLR, and RS4 all seem to be the same product/site/company;
    2) 60 hp for $60 seems to too good to be true;
    3) The photo for the G-Force HQ seems to be photo-shopped, and a search for the "founder" Simon J. Bruce results in nada;
    4) As Nathan said previously, the fact that it's "available" for almost any car, scares me.

    This all leads to the same scenario as the Turbonator/Tornado/Electric Supercharger scam a few years back. Yes, it might actually work, and, if so, fair play to those that get those amazing power gains so cheaply. But if it doesn't, best case scenario is that you're out $60. Worst case, well....

    As stated previously, YMMV.
     
  4. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    I don't know. The soldering seem to be of high quality and in compliance with J-BOD standards with plenty of pins on the chip for expansion. A little careful digging revealed some background engineering by the On Whore-izon guys, but seems the project lead turned out to be a litigious scum thus forcing the On Whore-izon to backwards engineer their own product and sell it under a different brand name.
     
  5. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    So snake oil aside, what effects does adding a resistor have? Anything?
     
  6. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    It fools the ECU into thinking the intake air temp is lower than it really is enriching the mixture. However, the O2 sensor will see this richer mixture and try to trim the fuel back.
     
  7. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    Perfect reason to buy two then! :lol:
     
  8. lotsie

    lotsie Club Coordinator

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    Another hint, don't bother with earthquake insurance either, as Manitoba sits on Pre-Cambrian shield (solid rock, goes way deep):Thumbsup:

    Mark
     
  9. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    I know someone who did the mod...

    not with this, but just putting a resistor instead of the temp sensor. Chose a value such that the ECU thought it was 70 degrees or something. He picked up a few HP, but pulled the item anyway. It was John Petrich up in the Portland area. He's a good guy who has done lots to his car.

    While it does fool the ECU, you still have the knock sensor to protect the engine from extreme lean conditions, so it's not as bad as it seems.

    But $70 is just BS.

    The MSRP is just there to create a psycological "anchor" for the value to make prospective buyers to think it's a deal. A bad deal for a plastic box, a sticker and a resistor array. But the guys spared no expense. They could have just put a single resistor in there and saved a quarter! No expense spared!

    Matt
     
  10. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

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    I think you have this backwards. I think this effective thermistor cheat is an attempt to lean the mix and therefore gain some power. Colder = leaner, hotter is richer, So the O2 sensor will sniff the exhaust and try to adjust, but it will be trying to richen it back up. And yes, you do still have the knock sensor to yank timing if it gets too lean.

    It is much safer and effective to work with the ECU instead of trying to cheat it.
     
  11. Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    "Cold" air will be seen as denser and more fuel will be added to compensate for it. :Thumbsup:

    And the 02 sensor will try to lean it out seeing it as a "rich" condition. Or could (should)...
     
  12. mini_racer

    mini_racer Well-Known Member

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    Correct, I am the backwards one here..................my bad.
     
  13. Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    I once had a boss with an 84 Corvette... the only year of the CROSSFIRE fuel injection.
    He SWORE that hotter spark plugs were BETTER since they'd burn all the fuel.

    Of course, he'd never want to run against my "lowly" 5.0 Mustang... smart man.

    It seems a lot harder to trick the ECU these days into gaining more HP. Gone are the days of tweaking the TPS, bumping the fuel pressure, colder thermostats, etc.

    These days EVERYTHING seems to throw a code!
     
  14. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    Most questions should first go to the manufacturing available technical contact.
    G-Force High Performance Chips at Wholesale Prices - Contact Us



    See what explanation and MINI specific answers they have about their product. Than at least a foundation to applaud the product or discredit technically.

    I will say that I am an advocate of if you do not personally have experience or technical knowledge of a part try to learn more before commenting its performance. Speculation and street common sense is of little real applicable benefit but fun to read.

    The price is the real issue but Matt does have a plausible explanation.
     
  15. works4me

    works4me New Member

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    Lesson Learned

    If you're going to to try to trick someone into spending $60 for a circuit, go ahead and spend the extra 50c to buy a small board & a couple extra diodes/resistors to make it at least *look* like a real circuit.

    [​IMG]

    I take one look at this and instantly *know* that it was specifically built with the intent to deceive.

    Moreover there's a great likelihood that those contacts will come loose over time...talk about leaving yourself open to a support nightmare. :eek:ut: :lol:

    Now nobody give them any ideas! ...oh wait...dang...
     
  16. works4me

    works4me New Member

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    #16 works4me, Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
    I got it!

    I've been trying to figure out how they can avoid being accused of outright fraud. Given the fact that there is no power or other signals going to the chip (not even a ground) and that it is connecting in parallel with the temp sensor, the only *possible* function is a fixed-value resistance. Moreover most cheap"programmable" devices (e.g. Programmable Logic Arrays, EEPROMs, etc.) would not work in this case because it's an *analog* signal. And anything that would work (e.g. custom ASIC) is way too expensive (and 1000% overkill). So how can they claim this is "tuned to specific vehicles"? (i.e. sufficiently to stay out of jail or at least being shut down)

    My guess is that each pair of pins on the chip have different resistive values. So they "tune" the chip for different cars by connecting the wires to different pairs of pins. That way they can honestly say that it is "customized" for specific vehicles.

    That would also allow them to stay within a reasonable range of resistance values for each car to avoid stalling (due to an over-rich condition) or throwing codes.

    Very clever....in an evil, devious kind of way...


    BTW this may have been blatantly obvious to everyone else...I'm still waking up so all the neurons aren't quite up to speed yet...:idea:
     
  17. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    It's junk.
     
  18. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    And in WOT

    you're in open loop, so the O2 sensor does nothing. Really, you will get a mild power bump from this at WOT in the right condition. It's the price/performance ratio that is suspect. John did it with a 10 cent resistor. They add a 20 cent sticker, a couple wires and a bit of time, total cost including labor is what $1.50? Also, there is no guarantee that the resistance is right for our cars.

    But if it's even close to right, and gives say 1 hp of peak power, it's a better buy than a lot of other snake oil that's out there.

    But really, who's complaining? If the market will support this, then why not let people who don't know better buy it if they think it works. Isn't that what "open markets" are for? ;)

    And Lynn, if we limited ourselves to first hand knowledge and fact, the internet would be sparsely populated indeed!

    Matt
     
  19. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    Some of you might want to read up on how 02 sensors work, how to check them for function, and how they are constructed for the location environment most operating within before making such remarks about another part may having some similar single operation function?

    Reading the claims the ad very clearly uses phrases "up to" and full refund if not satisfied. This is not the first company to offer this type of product and claims. They at least have a containment for the main part while others just send a commonly available resistor specific for a type vehicle. * one reference check out 02 eliminator.

    Let me be clear, I am not recommending this specific product to anyone. I just think it is funny how the closet experts come out to lay claim about product knowledge never having tried it and post comments indicating within those responses a lack of basic electrical specifically automotive electrical understanding.

    Stop already! You just lower this thread and forum down to the level of another.
     
  20. Justa Jim

    Justa Jim Well-Known Member
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    Ok, everyone is talking about the "chip', but what about the "Tornado" thingie?

    Jim
     

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