2nd Gen R56 Cooper S Knocking noise heard from above cylinder head?

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by Systemlord, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

    Mar 28, 2013
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    This knocking noise (above cylinder head) only happens after the car has been driven for 20 or more minutes and occurs 1 out of 10 times, I can go a week or more without hearing it. I remember the last time I heard this knocking noise, it was about a week and a half ago. When I move my mic (in You Tube video) over the cylinder head I hear it clearly above the cylinder next to the timing chain area (we will call it cylinder #4) and when I move my mic over the timing chain section of the valve cover the sound diminishes, same if I move mic over cylinder #3. I had my timing chain replaced a year ago and add 1/2 quart of oil every 1000 miles or 3 gas-ups. I check the oil religiously!

    Any ideas what this knocking noise could be?

    Appreciate any helpful input! :Thumbsup:

    [ame="http://youtu.be/DiY9l8aWZE0"]20150201 215114 - YouTube[/ame]

    Regards,
    Systemlord.
     
  2. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    I can't tell what year your 2nd gen is... You might want to add this info to your signature... Makes our suggestion's easier...

    The 2nd gen saw 3 maybe 4 revisions to the chain tensioner.... Do you have the latest installed? If serviced by the dealer, they will have this info. They aren't too expensive... maybe $40 or so and can be done as a DIY...

    Might be chain slop you are hearing...

    The high pressure injectors are also known to be noisy and make a "clacking" sound... If it's noisy injectors.... Nothing to worry about...

    When your chain was replaced..... Were all the plastic chain guides also replaced?

    RealOEM.com * BMW R56 Coop.S JCW Timing and valve train-timing chain

    Screen Shot 2015-02-02 at 6.09.41 AM.jpg
     
  3. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

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    A year ago my entire timing chain tensioner, chain and guides were replaced, the noise isn't coming from the timing chain area, it's coming from above cylinder #4 intake side. Some think it's a lazy lifter, the sound is coming from the intake valve area.
     
  4. Tigger2011

    Tigger2011 Member

    Oct 30, 2013
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    A few things occurred to me.
    1. Fuel rail pressure low at idle. Check the FRP with Dashcommand. Should be >750 psi @ idle. A low FRP will make an injector sound like a diesel especially at idle.
    2. Buy a can of oil system flush and run it through. Usually warm up and about 10 minutes more. Whatever the directions says, then replace oil and filter. This should help remove any build up that may have accumulated in the lash adjusters.
     
  5. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

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    I heard the noise again this time it was a little louder and coming from the valve train, I could clearly hear a cam lobe slapping against what sounded like a collapsed lifter. The sound was unmistakable to me and appeared to occur every forth stroke on the intake valves. Again every time this happens it's when getting off of a freeway where I was doing 70+MPH, never has this occurred at any other time. I shut off the engine for few minutes and restarted and the noise was gone. It just so happens that it's the cylinder furthest from the throttle body, closest to the Vanos cam gear.

    Anyone have a clue to what it would cost to replace all lifters? It seems like the intake camshaft must be removed in order to replace a lifter.
     
  6. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    #6 Metalman, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
    Without labor..... Parts would be about $25.00 each..... And there are 16 of those babies...

    You know these engines vary the oil volume by demand... Any relation with coming off a run at 70+ mph and then a drop in RPM? Might want to check if the oil pump is working correctly...

     
  7. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

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    I didn't know that, it's only one lifter that going bad and not all of them. How would I even go about checking if the oil pump is working correctly? I get a lot of oil volume around the valve train, the bottom of the filler cap is always dripping wet with oil when I check my oil, I can see the oil dripping off the cams.
     
  8. fngolfer

    fngolfer Active Member

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    Wouldn't it throw a code if it's a bad lifter?
     
  9. Eric@Helix

    Eric@Helix New Member
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    No it wouldn't. Remember that it's oil that's pressurizing the lifters, so first look at your oil. Is the level low, or is your oil dirty? Did you put 5W30 in your car or another weight. You may have a small clog in the lifter journal which is collapsing the lifter. First things first: put a new oil and filter in the car so that you know you're getting good pressure.
     
  10. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    And use a OEM oil filter, not Fram etc...
     
  11. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Does it knock three times?

    If so, it might be one of those Tony Orlando MINIs.....
     
  12. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

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    I thought I would update this thread with the cause of that knock like sound that turned out to be my 3rd gen tensioner not tensioning enough at idle only, no issues with proper tensioning above 1000 rpm. It must have been a little loose causing a marble like knocking sound that was enough to cause a link in the chain to make that noise, guides looked fine.

    After replacing my 2 year old 3rd gen tensioner with the newer final redesign 5th gen tensioner I never heard the noise again! It's been since the beginning of March I had the 5th gen tensioner installed, it paid off! :D

    I strongly believe that the 5th gen is much improved do to the very smooth plunger action that I witnessed firsthand (thumb pushing) on the plunger when comparing it to a new 4th gen tensioner that felt exactly the same as my old and lazy 3rd gen tensioner.
     
  13. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    What was the part number on the 5th gen tensioner?

    Perhaps..... 11317607551

    I'm amazed it's taking them this long to get this right...
     
  14. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

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    #14 Systemlord, Aug 16, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
    That's it, 82mm longer tensioner. The 4th gen tensioner was shorter in length, I believe it was 78mm, you can tell them apart easily because the lack of the V-shaped pin hole at the center of the tensioner bolt. You don't see it on the 5th gen 82mm longer tensioner, I believe Mini removed the V-shaped pin hole at the center of the tensioner bolt so that when someone came in with a problem related to a tensioner/timing chain, they would know it didn't have the latest final 5th gen tensioner installed.

    I think anyone who doesn't have a 5th gen tensioner installed should immediately have it installed to prevent the timing chain issues from reoccurring. It's a safe, cost preventative measure as it can tension a longer chain should it become stretched over time. Far better than the older problematic tensioners failing completely costing people thousands in repairs, not all failed timing chains and tensioners provide you with a warning of what's about to happen.

    However I do not recommend installing the new tensioners without first locking the cams and crankshaft!
     
  15. Ender

    Ender New Member

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    just coruious on why you would lock it up if only changing the, tensioner? if i went threw the touble of buying the 200+ tool why not jsut do the whole job?
     
  16. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

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    That's the proper procedure unless you want to risk the cams and or the crank from turning when you install the new tensioner, why risk it? Threading in a tensioner applies force on the timing chain, the Bentley Manual also states this in detail. That's why I had the dealer perform the tensioner install, I didn't want to buy the $200 tools and do it myself and screw it up.
     
  17. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update !!
     
  18. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    11317607551 was used when I had mine done under warranty. No issues...
    Thanks for the update...
     
  19. Ender

    Ender New Member

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    what did the shop charge you?
     
  20. Systemlord

    Systemlord New Member

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    My ex-Mini dealer charged me 1 hour labor ($150) to install the tensioner.
     

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