Suspension Brakes Attempting my first coilover install....Got Qs.

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by Bster13, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

    Dec 26, 2013
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    I just purchased TSW KW Variant 2 coilovers from Way Motor Works and I also have Vorschlag camber plates on the way, fit for the TSW KW Variant 2s w/ 60mm springs. I've never held these products in hand, nor am I familiar with what parts come w/ them vs. what parts I need to carry over to complete the install.

    As the new owner of a car with 87k I have no idea what suspension bushings have been replaced over time, but I figure they are beat. With that said I want to make sure I replace what I can while I have the suspension apart.

    First quest is to determine what needs/can be replaced as a wear item over time. Here are the exploded diagrams for the Rear and Front.

    Rear:
    RealOEM.com   BMW R56 Cooper S SINGLE COMPONENTS FOR REAR SPRING STRUT

    Front:
    RealOEM.com   BMW R56 Cooper S GUIDE SUPPORT/SPRING PAD/ATTACHING PARTS

    In those diagrams, what are the things that wear out over time?

    Second quest is to determine what is better for my needs. My car is my second car, and is only driven on weekends. It is for backroads twisties and the occasional HPDE track day. I am very worried with the coilovers, the camber plates, and the Hotchkis Sport Rear Camber Links (poly bushings), that the car will be too harsh. While a solidly mounted suspension is best for handling, I need to strike a balance so the car is good on roads trips. Good equals comfortable and doesn't not squeak all over the place. So for my needs...

    Poly:
    Powerflex Rear Upper Shock Mount Bushings - Way Motor Works

    or

    OEM:
    Rear Upper Shock Mount Bushings - Way Motor Works

    If there are any other parts I should be replacing while I am in there, please let me know!

    Thanks.
     
  2. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    :Thumbsup: No help here. Bump Bump.:Thumbsup:

    Jason
     
  3. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Why not call Way and ask for support after you get you order and see what he recommends you do?

    I had a qualified, certified and insured mechanic install my suspension and brake components. I suggest that what you should do beside saving a few bucks doing something you have never done before.

    Sure I could have done it, it's just nuts and bolts, but why risk it and the safety aspect of it.
     
  4. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    If I never tinkered, I'd never learn anything, nor could I call myself an engineer. :p

    I emailed Way (now that I've spent near $3k with him, haha), and hopefully they get back to me shortly, but this is plan B in case they are too busy ATM. I ~don't~ want the coilovers to get here w/out the other supporting parts. To have to wait for a 2nd shipment will drive me nuts. hehe.

    I've started out small and I hope to continue progressing from easier to harder installs:

    - PVC delete & catch can
    - Schroth Quick-fit belts
    - H-Sport Competition rear sway bar
    - Coilovers & camber plates
    - Downpipe & Catback exhaust
    - turbo & exhaust manifold
     
  5. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Just something you should think about....

    87k miles eh? Do they put salt down on the roads where this MINI has lived?

    The #2 bolt that holds the rear damper to the aluminum trailing arm is what's known as a "self tapping" bolt.... MINI did this to save.... Oh, I don't know $0.50 maybe..... Instead of using a pre threaded hole and a normal bolt....

    RealOEM.com * BMW R56 Cooper S SINGLE COMPONENTS FOR REAR SPRING STRUT

    Now what happens is water will eventually wick into this connection and corrosion will begin.... And if the water is salty.... It speeds up the corrosion... The second thing about this connection is the fact that the trailing arm is aluminum and the bolt isn't (for obvious reasons you don't want an aluminum bolt here)... But dissimilar metals in this connection is just another nail in the coffin as far as corrosion is concerned.....

    The reason for me mentioning this is the real possibility you will strip out the aluminum threads in the trailing arm when this bolt is removed...

    All is not lost if this happens..... Things like a "threaded insert" can be used for repair ++ TIME-SERT Threaded inserts for stripped threads, threaded inserts, thread repair stripped sparkplug's, Ford sparkplug blowouts, threaded inserts threaded, repair stripped threads, stripped threads, inserts threaded inserts, Ford spark plug repair,..... Don't use the same oem MINI bolt as it is actually tapered slightly needed for thread forming into the soft aluminum arm..... Replace it with a high strength fastener....

    As a side note, I pulled those two OEM bolts on my MINI at around 5k and added threadlocker (designed for disassembly).... Basically filling the gap between the bolt threads and the aluminum threads with Locktite so moisture can't wick in to start the corrosion...

    If you attempt this work or have it done by someone, this is an area you should be prepared for....

    A second thing you will need for the rear dampers is a conical washer adapter to mount the KW unit to this very same bolt.... Way would have this for you....

    Ummmmm.... And good luck.....:Thumbsup:
     
  6. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    All do respect a rocket scientist and engineers are very smart but that does not make them a trained mechanic. Some things are so easy anyone can do them but this is not something I would take on without a person that works on cars (MINI's) specifically.

    You have invested 3 k in parts so far and the best insurance is or have them installed by a pro.
     
  7. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    @Metalman, thanks for the tip. When you first mentioned an insert, my immediate thought was "F, I have Helicoils" haha.
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7bUxU1290"]Time Sert VS Heli Coil - YouTube[/ame]

    @Dave, some folks get screwed over by mechanics who are incompetent or some that don't have vested interest like you do in your car, so it can go both ways. Since this is a second car for me, so long as I think with a level head for when I am in over my head, I can call in help while not being rushed to drive to work the next day. :p
     
  8. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Ok good luck:rolleyes:
     
  9. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    Negative Nancy I tell ya! :fingerscrossed:
     
  10. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    No, I just look forward to your "Help WTF did I do wrong posts"
     
  11. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    #11 Bster13, Mar 15, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
    You'll be entertained, I'll learn something, and others will give actual advice. A win for all!
     
  12. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Brakes I do myself, ever since a shop screwed mine up. They're not that hard, as long as you keep air out of the lines, it's an easy and kind of fun job.

    Suspension, yeah I could do that myself, but I have a trusted shop that also does the alignment, and as it's hitting the track frequently, I'd just rather have them do it. Suspension is a bit more comlicated, especially when you're setting it up/crossweighting/corner balancing, that I just defer it. Lot's of variables to address to get it right. With the suspension, I've seen enough people have headaches and issues that I'll just avoid all that, thank you very much. That being said, it's definitely a doable DIY, but in my situation it's just not for me. I just spent a boatload on coilovers, might as well pay someone who prepares racing cars to do it right the first time. As soon as the snow melts.
     
  13. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    The alignment and cross weighting will be done by a shop I trust, I don't have the desire to go there. But install and drive a few mile to the shop....here's for hoping!

     
  14. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    FWIW Parked car for a bit and installed some mods:

    -Schroth quick-fit harnesses
    - Oil catch can
    - H-Sport Competition Rear Sway Bar (25.5mm hollow) on softest setting, figured I'd play it safe.
    - WMW rear sway bar end links
    - Helix short shifter
    - Momo taller shift knob
    - NM Engineering Torque Arm Insert
    - pulled the 87k mile MCS turbo
    - installed the JCW turbo
    - JCW Exhaust manifold
    - installed the CNT Racing catless, resonated downpipe
    - Wagner Competition IC
    - NM Engineering hot/cold side piping
    - Detroit Motoring Turbo Oil line Kit
    - JCW Intake and Amsoil air filter

    After determining the first JCW turbo was leaking and getting a new one, all has been well. I will say I now am an expert at taking and putting on turbos for the R56, what a pain with all this troubleshooting! Definitely learned a ton as my first foray in shadetree mechanics other than oil changes, spark plugs, and changing brake pads. It's been like Xmas on a weekly basis buying tools I need to complete the job.

    The TSW KW Variant 2 coilovers finally shipped from WMW (I ordered them on 3/11), so I'll be digging into that project shortly. I'll let everyone my impressions of the coilovers. Hopefully they will be liveable on the street. :)
     
  15. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    I have the TSW KW V2 and the are good right out off the box but the springs are not that great after a year of hard driving. They are fine on the street but the Springs are too soft for really hard driving because they are 336 LBs on all four corners.

    I upgraded the springs to Swift Springs (400 front 450 rear) and got rid of the silly helper springs. My TSW / WMW KW V2's are so much better now and even preform much better that the TSW KW V2 setup when it was brand new.

    My car has excellent weight transfer in the corners and the car turns in great now. Granted my set up in not a complete JRZ set up but is 50% cheaper. I also do not think the JRZ 's would be a 50% upgrade from what I have now but that's my personal opinion.

    Don't forget the right tires are required to run really hard to take advantage of the suspension and for me nothing is better than the Dunlop DZ II's. Michelin Pilot SS are a nice tires but they are too cushy for me I want crisp turns and excellent grip over everything else and the Michelins simply do not and can not offer that when pushed hard over and over. That also why Michelin makes a cup tire but they cost $$$$$.

    *** FYI ***
    Long before Way bought TSW the TSW springs on the TSW coil overs were Swift Springs. Somewhere along the way KW said they could make the same spring as Swift. :nonod: This has proven time and time again to not be true.

    No body makes Springs as good as Swifts and that's why they are always an additions $$ option on every high market coil over setup. :Thumbsup:
     
  16. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    I want to say your car is almost solely track orientated and you just drive on the street to/from the mechanic and the track, correct? Knowing my car will be use will be more shifted towards street use (weekend backroads car with the wife, driving down Rt 81 for hours in end to have fun in the Smoky's, occasional HPDE), I am hoping the KW springs will be the right balance for my needs. If they clap out over time I guess I'll have to address it, but I understand the car will handle well, just not optimally for a full time track slut. :p

    What level of dampening would you suggest as a starting point with the 336lb springs and my use case? (I know I'll fiddle with it to my own preference, but the downside of these coilovers is the PIA access to the dampening)

    As for tires, I have a set of 205/50/15 DIIs in my garage waiting. I loves the Star Spec Direzzas.... though the DIIs are no longer in production I hear. I will be running Konig Dials (12/2lbs in 15x8 config) and hoping like heck they clear the Brakeman BBK (according to a vendor they have more clearance than the 949 Racing 6ULs...we'll c.)
     
  17. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, Dave is more like how you described yourself than a track nut; hit him up, your goals sound virtually identical.
     
  18. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    Ok, maybe I confused the two of you then. Frame of references is my clapped out stock S suspension.... it does not handle bumps well, almost seems like there is no suspension at all. I just hope the stiffer springs of the TSWs won't feel like bricks on the street is all.
     
  19. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    BSTER 13 You should be fine with everything you have selected so far.

    I am not the track nut I drive my car on the street and my wife even rides in my car up to NYC and back sometimes. PA, NJ and NYC roads are horrible and I would never take a track car on those roads. If I was a track guy my car would be even more rigid and on a trailer. :rolleyes:

    My car was and is daily driver it just not stock by any means. :devil:

    You and your wife will be fine with the TSW V2 and as for a setting them I just set mine in the middle for the first 6 months to learn how the car handled with the new setup. After a while I adjusted the fronts firmer by 3 and increased the rear by one and set my anti-sway bar at the middle setting. This has worked out great for me. I have never bottomed out or compressed the springs completely and the car handles bumps with no issues.

    I also had a really good shop do a nice street aggressive alignment for me after I put my Swift spings in this year and this was the best my car has handled yet. Hell Colin even liked it when we ran the dragon this year. Yup I let him drive and we all know he can be a D@#! but that what friends are for honesty.

    FYI I get my car aligned after every major change to the suspension and rotate my tires every 3-5 K.
     
  20. Bster13

    Bster13 New Member

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    Ok, that's promising for my wants. I'm now looking forward to it. :)

    I know the R56 is not the R53, but for alignment I've read a good starting point is -2F and -1 or 1.5R. Seem about right?

    I have the H-Sport on soft now as I've never driven the car that hard (it only has snow tires), so we'll see where that goes. I like a very neutral feel. No Tokyo drift here. :p
     

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