Suspension Brakes KW coilovers

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by genik, Nov 11, 2015.

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  1. genik

    genik Member

    Feb 20, 2012
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    This a question for the ones that own an R56S and have installed KW Variant coilovers, or for ones that know first hand things about them. Regarding the KW brand, i want to ask a few things...
    1. what are the differences between the Variant 1,2 and 3 models?
    2. is it possible to make alterations in height or stiffness in those KW models without lifting the car?
    3. what other options/brands did you have in mind before purchasing the Variant model?
    4. in real life what differences will i see between the stock suspension and the one that KW Variant3 offers?
     
  2. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    #2 CarlB, Nov 11, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
    I own a R53 that I autocross and use the Variant 3 KW coilovers.
    I can't answer that without knowing what you want from your car. Do you want to drive at the limit of adhesion? Are you looking for something different than the stock handling. My car with Variant 3 dampers has 400 LBs springs in front and 500 LBs springs in the rear. The stock spring rate on a R53 is 175 LBs front and rear. The car handles great, but it is very stiff in comparison to the stock setup. It isn't harsh, and by that I mean it doesn't bottom out on the bump stops the way the stock suspension does. The biggest difference in quality between dampers is the force they resist movement with at different shaft speed or velocities. Better quality dampers can develop adequate low shaft speed damping without the high shaft speed damping being too high. The low speed damping is what is important to car response and handling. This is one of the biggest differences between inexpensive dampers and higher quality dampers. KW makes a good product, and I am very happy. You can spend a lot more money and get something better, but I do not believe that for autocrossing I would see any difference. I do not drive my car in downtown Washington DC where I live because of the roads. The roads are very bumpy and it would be uncomfortable. I have a pickup truck or a BMW for that.
     
  3. fishmonger

    fishmonger Well-Known Member

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    a 10 second google search gets you this summary:

    V1 = Street = height adjustable only.
    V2 = Street = height and rebound adjustment
    V3 = Street = height, rebound, and low speed compression (not fully adjustable like some vendors will make it seem).

    Changing ride height - lift the car, get an alignment
    changing rebound - well, the adjuster in the front can be reached through the camber plate, but in the back, well, remove the shock, make sure you mark position of it, or you'll need another alignment once you put it back in.

    changing bump on V3 shocks is done at the bottom of the shock, so you can do that without much trouble.


    V3 manual - English a few pages in
    https://robrobinette.com/images/S2000/Shocks/KW_V3_Manual.pdf

    And real life difference depends on what you do with the car. If you drive the thing to the grocery store, you'll never know the difference other than that it's a little stiffer and lower.

    Even though I looked at them for a long time, I never bought a KW unit - bought Colin's revalved and Switft spring-modded BCs instead and couldn't be happier (also saved about $1k over the KW/Vorschlag combo I was looking at).
     
  4. Red Bull

    Red Bull Active Member

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    I'm running ST-XTA coilovers and they ride and handle great. This is the first lowered car I've had that was more comfortable and handled better than stock.

    ST is a subsidiary of KW and the XTA's are a blend of a few different series. The struts have damping adjustments like the V2's, and linear front springs and uniball adjustable camber plates like the KW Clubsports. The bodies are galvanized with a 5 yr warranty instead of INOX stainless lifetime warranty.

    If you live in an area where the weather isnt hard on your suspension and mostly drive on the street, they're a great value. I got them on sale for $1200 delivered.
     
  5. Firebro17

    Firebro17 Dazed, but not Confused
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    That's a great piece Carl.
     
  6. genik

    genik Member

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    Where i live the roads are bumpy, can't the KWv3 be setup so that it will handle those bumpy roads and when i want to put it on the track change it again accordingly?
     
  7. Firebro17

    Firebro17 Dazed, but not Confused
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    Genik, I forget... Where are you from?
     
  8. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    It's all Greek to me...
     
  9. genik

    genik Member

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    Generalization, but im prolly the worst, the rest, are better :wink:
     
  10. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    Handling and ride quality are subjective, I do not know what you would consider objectionable. I do not like driving a R-53 on downtown streets because you hit the bump stops. In a R-56 I try to drive around the pot holes. Stiff springs and shocks that are valved for stiff shocks are not what you want for a smooth ride. What is acceptable to you is the question only you can answer. I do not know how stiff the dampers would be on there lowest settings with low rate springs. Damper stiffness, is specific to the springs. KW variant 3 front struts are adjustable from the top in center of the shock and from the bottom of the strut without disassembling any part of the suspension. The rears are also adjusted top and bottom. To adjust the top you take the shock out. That does not require doing a alignment. It is the two bolts at the top and one at the bottom. I do not even take them off the car, just drop them down.
     
  11. genik

    genik Member

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    Disassembling? Im asking if i can lower or stiffen the car without lifting it, far away from disassembling is what im asking!
     
  12. Firebro17

    Firebro17 Dazed, but not Confused
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    :confused: Disassembly and Reassembly required...
     
  13. ColinGreene

    ColinGreene Well-Known Member
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    Part of the problem with any KW is that its a very old style Twin tube damper
    So for any given spring rate it will ride diffrently over rough pavment than a mono tube.
    but the real drawback is the damper resolution.
    think of it as a computer processor that can only handle so much then it freezes up/
    Thats what happens to KWs when worked hard, and they then feel floaty.
     
  14. genik

    genik Member

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    A serious accusation, do you have any numbers from testings proving what you claim?
     
  15. Firebro17

    Firebro17 Dazed, but not Confused
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  16. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    My first post says that there aren't any coilovers that can be adjusted for ride height without jacking the car up to release the tension on the spring.
    Colin is correct that KW uses twin tube as apposed to mono tube dampers on the MINI. The advantage of mono tube is it prevents the oil from getting air bubbles. The bubbles have the affect of making the damper softer. The advantage to twin tube dampers in the MINI application is that they are shorter. MINIs do not have a lot of room for long suspension travel. In general mono tube dampers are better, but high quality mono tube shocks still work very well. Koni still sells some twin tube racing dampers. Todays twin tube dampers (KW included) use a gas bag to maintain positive pressure on the oil to prevent the bubbles.
     
  17. Canusrufis

    Canusrufis RMW Powered R53
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    :popcorn:
     
  18. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    You can take Colin's word as to what he is saying. His company, Greene Performance has a fair bit of experience in this matter.
     
  19. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    Sorry, but you haven't shown in past posts that you would understand these numbers if given to you.
     
  20. genik

    genik Member

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    #20 genik, Nov 13, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
    Thank you for being so discreet and not at all ironic, but those numbers are not for my understanding only. There is a whole forum who would like to see accusations like these to be documented and proven, not to mention that its fair (to say the least) to post in public the "proof" so that even KW can have the ability to answer. ColinGreene and ScottinBend don't you agree?
     

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