Engine Drivetrain 1st Gen Cooper S Looking for info from actual FA53 users!

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by slo_crx1, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. slo_crx1

    slo_crx1 New Member

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    Hi everyone! I'm a lurker for the past few years, finally gave in and signed up for the forum to try and find more information for my upcoming project.

    Long story short, I have an '06 r53 with a pully'd eaton that's on its way out (sounds like rocks rattling around in the snoot, figured some teeth are gone from the gearing and the rotors are a little loose) and I decided to upgrade through a different path. After looking at the M45's compressor maps and delta maps, I decided that a 45% efficiency rating from the charger was not something I liked (especially with the low airflow output), and a properly sized turbo would be in my better interest. Besides, who doesn't love a little turbo in their life!

    I decided to go with a T03 50 trim in a .48 a/r housing (quick spool up to full boost, but not earth shattering power to keep it safe), and after talking to a few people I wanted to hit up this community to see if anyone here has first hand experience successfully using FA53 to tune their r53?

    I'm limiting myself to 18psi max from the turbo, so the stock map sensor can be retained, and I've found another way to retain the upstream map sensor to keep the cel light off. I know I'm going to need 550cc injectors (up from my jcw380's currently) and that ByteTronik offers them for a discounted price with the FA53 package, so that's the route I'd like to go.

    Specifically, those who know how to properly keep your LTFT and STFT in check (to within +/-5%) using your logs and a wideband o2 sensor, and keep your knock counts to the lowest value possible, has anyone ever noticed any "strange" behavior from the factory ecu after tuning this way?

    The goal is a very conservative 250hp, and I would like to stick to close to the 11.4 afr range under full boost (ramping up from ~12.5afr at throttle crossover from open to closed loop, if that is adjustable and remove timing as necessary to smooth the maps and remove knock), and while I'm very familiar with the GUI and it's (at times) strange table names, I'm not completely up to speed on how the Siemens dme works. I'm not new to EFI tuning, have been doing so for close to 15 years now, I'm just seeing if anyone can provide some insight to their experience with FA53.

    Thanks!
     
  2. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to Motoring Alliance the bestest MINI forum on the interweb !! I personally enjoy the sound of the supercharger but good luck with your endeavor and keep us updated on your progress.
     
  3. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Not many people on here use ByteTronik or FA53. ( not really Full Access)

    You can make 250 Whp with an Eaton SC with a 15% pulley easy. I am currently doing it now and have been for a few years.

    Good luck with your build but this site is not that technical for what you are trying to do.

    The NAM (North American Motoring) is more of a ByteTronik or FA53 site.
     
  4. ZippyNH

    ZippyNH Well-Known Member

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    You think?!
    There was a "free bytronic" here that was given away...was loved do much I think it was used for skeet practice....or so.ething similar if you get my jest....
    Maybe someone will link to the tread for the op...sure it was an early unit....but still...it should have worked and done what was advertised to do....cane down to a support issue...or lack of it if I RECALL...just a word to the wise...keep your eyes open.
    Sounds like the OP has some skill, and knowledge...
    That having been said, most have never seen more than one or two turbo gen1 cars that could be driven as daily drivers....even the likes of RMW haven't offered a kitfir a reason imo...
    And it is with the $$ needed to do a turbo build, it puts the car in a different $$$ class...
    But a 250 hp supercharged MINI is possible, and long lasting if done right....and a fraction of the cost...not cheap, but still cheaper than a full stand-alone ecu, and the plumbing needed for a turbo build.
    Good luck...please keep us posted.
     
  5. slo_crx1

    slo_crx1 New Member

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    For most swapping to a turbo is quite expensive (1320's kit for example, while solid is very pricey), however in my case it's relatively cheap to do since I have much of the parts laying around already from years of previous projects and I will be doing all the fabrication work. My biggest expenses are going to be the tuning (whether via stand alone or through FA53) and injectors. I had thought about the typical route most r53 owners go through (BVH, cam, etc), but it still didn't make much sense to keep pumping all that hot air into the engine.

    Other than FA53, my other options include KESS via WinOLS to physically hunt down the specific maps to make changes, but it's very time consuming especially if the maps have already been found and put together in one neat package.

    Really I guess this is more or less a hobo type build with as little money being spent as possible. I just don't see the sense of dumping mega bucks into a car 10 years old and not worth much these days, especially when there are better old platforms to work off of.
     
  6. slo_crx1

    slo_crx1 New Member

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    Also from what I've been reading and seeing, there were some issues with support from Bytetronik, and then again there were many issues with users not knowing what they were doing. Odd though, I've never come across a single thread anywhere with anyone posting issues with logs like I would typically expect to see in every other forum I've been a part of.
     
  7. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Support is there. However, piss them off and they shut you out. I speak from experience. Stand alone vipec for me now.
     
  8. slo_crx1

    slo_crx1 New Member

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    That I can see, I messaged them over on the "other" site to try and get some info since there really is none. Instead of answers I mostly got an attitude, even after I gave some of my background writing some of the code for Evo's for their earlier ECUFlash project and explained I just wanted information on what it could actually do.

    I hate to say it, but I doubt I will find any info either. I actually found more information on how to install a SAFC and run the old school method that advances timing in the process. Everything with this car is a battle lol.
     
  9. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Get in touch with Chase, he's on FB mostly. He's turbo'ed his. Made it into quite a monster.
     
  10. slo_crx1

    slo_crx1 New Member

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    Yes, I've spoken with him a few times, but he's also running ViPec for his. If I had the extra money laying around a stand alone would be my favorite way to go and I wouldn't have an issue with tuning, at least those are straight forward. Maybe I'll just put everything together and run it at low boost on the factory ecu until I can get the extra money saved up, at least the turbo is small enough to emulate the stock charger range but with better efficiency.
     
  11. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    ViPEC for the Win!
     
  12. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

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    The only good ByteTroniK is a dead ByteTroniK!

    If you've done your digging, you have probably read a lot from me on NAM, and the Mynes site if it's even still around. I was Dick's Garage on both sites.

    To recap that entire mess:

    I was one of the first to have it literally I think I was order #7 or close to it.

    The problems with Mynes, their "Support" for the product, and the issues began on the day I installed it on my ECU. Per their instructions, a "stock tune" file was supposed to be created and automatically saved permanently to the SD card in the "Tactrix" style uploading interface... They forgot to mention that this wasn't compatible with Windows 7 which had come out earlier in the year, and guess what my laptop was running. Yep no "stock tune" file was ever saved.

    The way Mynes marketed and promoted FA53, anyone with tuning experience would be able to use FA53. So I took my car to a local "tuner" who my friends trusted... After spending nearly 5 HOURS on the dyno he finally made 170 HP! Nothing in the ECU would respond to what the tuner was trying to do. We even called Jayson at Mynes on his cell from the car on the dyno to find out WTF was going on, and what he was doing wrong. Jayson's response was something along the lines of "It should be working fine, just make small adjustments, or you could always have us tune it remotely" ABSOLUTELY NO HELP GIVEN!

    Turns out the adaptatives in the DME were overwriting the tune as things were being changed!

    After pretty much giving up at the tune shop the first night, I went home and decided to take the car up into the mountains the next day... A 1000 foot increase in altitude maxed out the adaptives, and the car automatically went into Limp Mode... Back down the mountain, and back to the dyno shop a couple days later...

    On the second night at the dyno, the "tuner" (Tobz Tuning in Denver CO) fried the fuel pump by running the car so much on the dyno that it ran low on gas and overheated the pump. The car stayed strapped to the rollers for the night, and I replaced the fuel pump the next day after work.

    On the third night, he got some issues fixed, but again was making pull after pull after pull until the S/C locked up, snapping the belt, and also destroying the crank pulley!

    At this point I was DONE with Tobz!

    So learning what I could online, and still not getting a bit of help from the jackwagons at Mynes, I got my car running decent enough to run after replacing the S/C and all the other broken parts. (Tobz had over 37 degrees of timing dialed in, and said that "It was GOOD!)

    After continuing to try and get advice from Mynes, and doing things myself, I got the car running on E85, and it lasted for about 2 months until spinning a rod bearing. That is when the SHIf really hit the fan with Mynes!

    They began personally attacking me on my phone, on the forums, and through PM's to other people.
    So I pushed back! And when I get pissed, I don't give up easily.

    Long story short, I turned to RMW which was my first choice anyhow before Mynes came along and found me. My car sat for 3 years while I decided what I was going to do with it... Now it's just a fun show car with a pretty much stock engine with a ViPEC ECU, because ByteTronik can't be totally removed once installed in the DME.

    My advice, go standalone! Do it once do it right, and trust the right people in the process.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Amen brother!
     
  14. slo_crx1

    slo_crx1 New Member

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    Yours was one of the first threads I read through (even looking at the logs you had posted) to try and pull as much info as possible. Other than that, not too many had ever really tried to tune their r53 with FA53 themselves, most had either a remote tune done or took it somewhere.

    I do agree that their marketing was HIGHLY deceptive. Even when Jason put EcuFlash out and Colby was making the Tactrix 1.3 cables did they ever say "anyone can tune now". It was pretty much a given that "yeah, you can royally ruin your car this way, so don't be stupid if you don't know what you're doing" lol. That's what really made me wonder if they had limited the program or what it was able to do. It's pretty clear now at this point that they were looking to build off the EcuFlash success and didn't really care about the end user. At least with my past experience tuning tons of subaru's/honda's/Evo's/DSM's there was always a wealth of knowledge that people would share, and for some of us it became a money making opportunity from those who still didn't understand the concept. I did hope that with my prior involvement with EcuFlash and it's beta testing, along with some of the custom Evo code I helped develop and test, that Jason would be a little more straight forward with me. It always seems that in the Mini community certain things such as tuning or conversions/swaps is highly secretive and nobody really discusses them. Or it could be the general Mini community just doesn't understand more than the basic bolt-on, which leaves those very few shining examples to get buried under a sea of mediocre threads.

    Thanks for the information though Rich, I'm not sure if you'll remember but even a few weeks ago I mentioned on a certain facebook group about lurking on NAM for years and watching what you went through with the Sprintex build (after someone had asked whether or not a Sprintex was a good upgrade). :Thumbsup:

    Looks like a stand alone is going on the list of priorities lol.
     
  15. ZippyNH

    ZippyNH Well-Known Member

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    #15 ZippyNH, Sep 16, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
    I really hope you can make it work with the stock ecu....
    I'm pretty sure it's been tried....and the biggest issue is the turbo out put is not linear in anyway when compared to the engine rpm (which a SC is)....and that's the issue....there is a correlation, but since load and egt's change the speed of the turbo....so the stock ecu might do ok with the turbo output in some cases, but be far too rich ot too lean in other cases....know you are trying to get the extra efficiency out of it...so get the 20 free hp or so....but if it costs you the motor..not so sure...
    A carefully adjusted waste-gate on a turbo might allow you to do it..an older more antiquated way compared to a BOV, but might work....perhaps connected to a vacuum actuator, or even manual...
    You obviously know far more than me on tuning, but I know the lack of maps in the stock ecu to compensate for load changes that cause volume changes is WHY the stock ecu doesn't play well with a turbo. Just want you to know enough so you can look deeper if you have not yet done so.
    Good luck.
     
  16. BlwnAway

    BlwnAway Well-Known Member

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    #16 BlwnAway, Sep 16, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
    Prop's to you for being able to ascertain some of the facts from wading through the mire of those old threads.
    The only reason I still believe in the product is that, for whatever reason, I wasn't disillusioned like most people were, I always understood that it was simply a tool and that the only support would be for the software and use of the software itself. And that there would be no tuning support unless it came from the the collective knowledge of the users themselves, and that simply never came to fruition because of the complications involved in learning and understanding BMW/Siemens tunning, myself included, it ended up being simply too much of an undertaking.
    The sole purpose for me originally getting it was having a remote tuning option, whether it be from myself or the ByteTronik guys, which is what I'm still using it for today, I'm simply letting them do the tuning. One thing to remember about back then, they were the only ones offering a remote tuning option besides sending your ECU out to have a canned tune installed, at the time Jan didn't offer a remote tuning tool and option, and him and the Mynes guys were the only well known tuners even doing tune parties.

    To this day, if you know how to use it, the software still works, but again the knowledge base just isn't there for someone starting out or even, as in your case, switching over from other platforms to Siemens, you personally probably have enough experience to make it work, but as was stated earlier, for what your planning, even with the proper knowledge, you're still going to run into the same issues as everyone else, even the pro's, who have tried. And as you've ascertained, the stand alone option is simply much easier and far more controllable.

    Good Luck with your project and let is know how it progresses, I still keep a watch on turbo projects since that will still be my end goal as well, once I've gotten use out if what I have.
     
  17. CarlB

    CarlB Active Member

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    I couldn't agree more. I have it and am very happy. I wish the community had developed, but it didn't. There are dealers who use it and you can remote tune. I know there are turbo cars running around that use it and are happy with the results. I believe they thought the community would develop. what happened was a lot of people started bashing them and they became defensive. After that they switched to remote tunes because they felt they were being trashed and it wasn't their fault.
     
  18. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    Jan RMW has always had the remote tuning option available.
     
  19. BlwnAway

    BlwnAway Well-Known Member

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    Then my bad, I certainly don't remember a flash tool and remote tuning option available back in 2010 when FA first came out, which surprises me since that's all I was really looking for at the time, some way to tune without having to catch up with either him or the Mynes guys at a tune party. I guess I somehow just missed it or it wasn't as well known as it is now.
     
  20. jiminni

    jiminni Well-Known Member

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    Have had it from day one.....car still runs great.....end of my story....
     

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