2nd Gen JCW It seemed like a good idea but....

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by Motormax, Jun 19, 2012.

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  1. Motormax

    Motormax New Member

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    I'm going to post this question here because IMHO it's more of a JCW question then just a strait Clubman Inquiry.. :idea:

    Ok So I have described my general build or mod plans in various post for my future 2012 Clubman JCW and have got lukewarm responses at best. One mod that seems to make a lot of sense (Unless I have been misinformed) is a heat shield like the one manufacture by NM Engineering there TitaNM turbo heat shield is designed to redirect heat from the turbocharger down and around the lower engine. I have read in other places that heat build up on the MINI cooper, Clubman included is fairly significant causing a artificial ceiling to the overall effectiveness be reached in either the OEM or aftermarket air intake. I have read nothing that JCW version of the R55 or R56 for that matter has done anything to diminish this. In fact it seems logical to me that because the JCW has a slightly larger turbo this would only increase any heat issue, if in fact there is one. That this heat build up can cause a direct decrease in whp and is exhibited over all power bands. I have also read it has caused damage to both the hood-scoop and the paint on the actual hood (bonnet) in the past. A aftermarket heat shield seems like good over all solution. However I have noticed on M/A there is not much mention of a heat shield. Is this because one is not truly necessary or even effective ?

    Yes I am new and will be a new owner of a Mini. But I am not new new to sports cars. In my import days predominantly Honda the first goal the first mods done regardless of engine type 7th, 8th, or even the new 9th generation engine was to dump as much heat out the engine bay as possible. Heat shield, over sized intercooler, silicon hoses, are all fairly strait forward mods that are the bare bones of factory compensation, bringing cooler air to the engine, and keeping whp at it's highest maturation across the power bands. Period.

    However as strait forward and well rather basic in a logical sense these mods are from the Japanese import perspective to the contrary these mods at some level on M/A don't to seem to be as equally embraced. Am I missing something (And I do not deny at all that this could be the case) or is the strategy for Mod and tuning a MINI conceptually different then what I'm use to or have been exposed to ? Like I wrote in other threads and posts, I'm not looking to throw $ under the bonnet, if you will, for the sake of doing so. If JCW got it perfect and nothing else is needed that's great ! But the various and variety of choices in the aftermarket regarding JCW tuned engines both in the R56 & R55 would lead one to believe that might not be the case. I humbly ask to be educated and informed by this esteemed body of experts. Thank you ! :)
     
  2. Jabbles

    Jabbles New Member

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    No idea if it would help from performance but I doubt it would hurt it either. As for preventing damage to the scoop and paint I say might as well go for it, especially if you drive hard.
     
  3. Johngo

    Johngo New Member
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    I have also been playing with ideas to cool my R56. The fan runs for minutes after the car is off, and I know that heat can be removed more efficiently... I removed most of the blocked hood scoop grill a couple of weeks ago. Haven't run enough to know if it has helped much. I would like to have someone bend the metal that is curved up, choking the hood scoop inlet even further to bend it down, or straight, at the very least to help create a vacuum and pull more air in. It would also, IMO help let the hot air out when parked and not damage the hood scoop by "pooling" the heat.

    I really like the Duell AG vented hood they have on the Coupe/Roadster as it looks like it would eliminate all the heat by pulling it out.
     
  4. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    My understanding is that the biggest performance gain you can get is by changing the intercooler to a larger one, like the one Forge sells. This is a significant $$$$ investment, and you'll only realize the true benefits if you then have the engine tuned to match the extra cooling ability. That assumes that the JCW exhaust is more free flowing than the standard turbo's.......

    The only beneficial heat shield for the turbo engines I've seen is the one that insulates the oil pipe from the hot side of the turbo.....but I question it's real value since our turbo's are water cooled, they don't ever get that hot, even after shut down since the auxilary pump continues to pump cool water thru it then.

    I'm not sure what your ultimate goal is here, more performance that you'll actually use, or just bragging rights and lots of cool stuff under the hood. I make no judgements here, just asking.

    If you're really after performance and intend to use it (as on track or in solo competition) there are lots of other things you can do that will help your times before even opening the engine compartment. Every thing you do to make it faster compromises how it drives on the street tho.....whether in some tiny acceptable way all the way up to unbearable.

    Let us know what you're after and folks will be better able to help you - there are no magic bullets.
     
  5. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    Biggest problem with the car is the lack of room under the bonnet. Unlike most others, it is really cramped and difficult to fit parts under it.
     
  6. Motormax

    Motormax New Member

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    Great Johngo! Those are all good ideas maybe we can see( if indeed AG vented hood is better at sucking in the cooler air) if it can be fitted to the R56 and R55. Keep us posted on any Mods or just idea's you might have at improved cooling. Weather your referencing a Muscle car, Italian exotic, or a maxed out Japanese import, cooler air means more power. Obviously this is true for MINI and it's award winning BMW power plant. Lets all pool our idea's and reports of both effective or even failures of trying to drop ambient and direct engine temps ! Hopefully it will be something we can all learn from and have fun keeping up on ! :popcorn:
     
  7. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

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    There's plenty of time (and warranty period) to find out for yourself what's important. Once you experience the mid-range torque of the JCW engine, you'll realize it is not comparable to the Honda power plants you mentioned. Yes, excessive heat diminishes performance, but a bit of power lost on a late model JCW in a traffic jam is not all that bad. Press the Sport Button and it all becomes good again.

    The largest performance gains come from increasing the boost and torque limiters. Up the boost, increase heat, install larger intercooler, diminish pressure increase with pressure drop, chase tail, break parts. Moderate tune states can be rewarding without putting the engine in harms way. Consider a device like the AccessPort later down the road. Absolutely put your money in a multi-function code reader and Bentley Service Manual.

    The NM heat shield looks good under the hood to some people, that's what it does, until a screw goes missing and it rattles. I think there's beauty in an uncluttered stock engine bay.
     
  8. Motormax

    Motormax New Member

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    Thanks minidave ! If I could have hit "LIKE" twice on your post I would have LOL ! Those are all awesome points and fair questions... My over all goal is perhaps the hardest of all.. I come from a street racing background and what the goal of most current street racers or those with that background, is to find a overall balance between performance and the quality of ride as a daily driver.

    I do plan to participate in various events with my MINI more fun orientated then flat out competition such as the Sandhills Open Road Challenge Home | Sandhills Open Road Challenge | Arnold, Nebraska (which I really hope to be able to attend with my daughter)

    Yes Mods without proper tuning is a waste. I too believe that a factory JCW could see real practical gains through a intercooler upgrade. I'll definitely check out the Forge.

    When it comes to Mods and performance upgrades, the $$$ is all about (Intelligent) choices and of course time. In the circles I have traveled in it's not uncommon to see $60,000 Honda Civics that based priced under 22k USD. But it might have taken 4,5 or more years to get it that way. The $ I spend on my MINI I know is not practical... it's a choice I make in lieu of other choices. Vacations, 3k Armani suites, 8k Rolex ..etc I'm a car enthusiast most people out of the car culture might think I'm crazy to spend this kind of money on a car ! LOL My friend said so just the other night the night before he took his two $10,000 Shepards to a dog competition in Germany ! LOL So who's silly ? What is silly is spending $ on the MINI that is NOT going to produce gains, or even more importantly, bring my MINI closer to the goals I have set out for it. My Clubman JCW off the lot will be close to 50k USD. Keep in mind this will be my firsts car in 3 years since a lot of bad things have happened in my life. Much of that 50k is going to strait out performance true, but also comfort and and well "bling" options on the cars interior and exterior. I could pull out the back seats replace the front seats with ultra light "racing" seats and of course this would mean benefits due to reduction in over all spring weight. But this is not practical (I'm a full cust single dad of a 5yo lol) Nor is it desirable to me. I want the plushy comfy seats! I want the car to go fast & look good, feel good doing it ! I want my MINI to be one of the fastest street MINI's out there. I know that there will be track and racing MINI's faster prob much faster then mine. But sitting in a roll bared stripped car has no appeal to me what so ever. Balance. That is what over all I hope to achieve. Beating a Mazda or Honda from one red light to another ? Well that's just icing on the cake ! and oh yes I will brag about it at the local hookah bar the street guys hang out in.. You bet ! :wink:
     
  9. Motormax

    Motormax New Member

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    Well said K-huevo ! I have had 4 test drives of the MINI (Not the JCW because of availability but one is lined up for me this Friday and I can't wait ! LOL) it is a completely different driving experience and I totally got hooked ! Your point on the Heat Shield is noted and bares much consideration. What about the less intrusive heat shields like the ones the actually fit on the inside of the hood ? What are your thoughts on a modified hood scoop or aftermarket hood scoop to improve outside to inside air flow ? Would love your guru thoughts on these . Thanks for all the help ! :Thumbsup:
     
  10. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

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    These two products work well as add-on thermal barriers Heat Reflective Tape NEW!, Floor & Tunnel Shield II - Heat & Sound Insulation 050507 | Purchase DEI, CryO2, Ny-Trex, Boom Mat & SPA Turbo Products | Design Engineering, Inc. - Thermal Performance Products, but first you need to see if there is a problem to fix.

    Once underway there is adequate air flow in the engine bay for street use conditions.
     
  11. Johngo

    Johngo New Member
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    My issue is more with after stopping than when moving. I have already gotten one hood scoop replaced, would be nice to not have to do another...

    I have read that once the car hits 20mph, the engine compartment temps will be the same as the ambient air temp.

    So far as the Duell AG items, they are stupid expensive before the shipping costs, which are equally high. Would love to get some of that stuff done, but it would require a repaint, which are not cheap. Would be nice to be able to do some simple things that just increase the cooling without having to rebuild the car.

    It took me a bit get the technique down, but I was able to remove those blocked vents on the hood scoop grill and do it in such a fashion that it still looks factory. I used a Dremel and a high speed cutter. The higher the speed, the better it worked. That small grill is roughly 70% blocked. I would have just removed it, but the PW paint shows up too well inside the hole, and frankly, I like the look with it in... :D
     
  12. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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  13. Justa Jim

    Justa Jim Well-Known Member
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    #13 Justa Jim, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2012
    John, this is simply in the "for what it's worth" category and I know I have a justa, but with a JCW, upper grill. When I was running the DDM open cone intake, my intake air temp was 30 degrees above ambient when moving and as high as 50 over when sitting still. I think it remains rather hot under the bonnet.

    Jim
     
  14. rkw

    rkw Well-Known Member

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  15. Johngo

    Johngo New Member
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    Good to know Jim.

    Nathan, I had not seen that... Nice.

    That MINI Challenge scoop is cool (ha! get it? COOL...:rolleyes:), but I think they are smoking crack for that price.
     
  16. Johngo

    Johngo New Member
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    I assume you have to do some metal trimming on the hood to get that MINI Challenge scoop to work well... Other wise it is all coming out of the same size hole as the standard scoop. All they did was move the intake opening to the front of the scoop and put in vents behind.
     
  17. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    #17 Metalman, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
    John, the new challenge scoop is actually closed off in the front. The air flowing over the tops of the louver create a vacuum and the action draws the hot air out. The challenge scoop works in reverse and doesn't draw air in.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Johngo

    Johngo New Member
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    Ah... Got it. Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was just crappy photography...:)

    Does it work better or just different?
     
  19. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    ^^^ can't answer that one....
     
  20. rkw

    rkw Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Some minor trimming is required on the underside of the hood, but not on the outside. See this thread: Challenge Bonnet Scoop - totalMINI Forums
     

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