F1 - 2009

Discussion in 'Motorsports Chat & Race Preparation' started by Steve, Jun 18, 2009.

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  1. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Any F1 fans here? I know the FIA, FOM, etc, are doing their best to ruin it for us, but behind the ugly politics they're still driving cars fast every couple weeks and it's been some pretty fair racing this year.

    Silverstone is this weekend (first practice in about 13 hours) and it may be the last time F1 runs there since the current (though dubious) plan is to move the British GP to Donington Park as of 2010.

    I'm looking forward to the race. Might as well enjoy it given the mess we may see in F1 next year.....
     
  2. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    Well, if the season continues the way it has, it will be the most boring season in a while. At least last year at this stage we still had 3 teams competing for both driver's and manufacturer's titles. This year Brawn is running away with it. Goof for them, of course, but not so much for the entertainment factor.

    I am honestly looking forward to next season. Hopefully 6 extra cars on the grid will make for a little more thrills.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    I see the season differently (different strokes, as they say). Never really care about either of the championships, just want to see some racing, and this year I've seen some pretty good racing. I don't even care much if the guy out front is running on his own as long as there's action somewhere on the track.....that is, assuming they actually televise it!

    On the other hand, if the politics and new rules don't take the wind out of things for next year, I absolutely agree that more cars means more fun. The three new teams are planning to all run Cosworth engines next year and I read today that they will be run without rule-imposed rev limits. Wonder how that will affect things.....
     
  4. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Hot off the wires....

    Eight Formula One teams began preparations for a rival series after failing to resolve their dispute with motor sport's governing body over financial constraints on Friday.

    Ferrari, which has participated since the first season in 1950, and current leader Brawn GP headed the list of Formula One Teams' Association members to announce the split ahead of Sunday's British Grand Prix.

    FOTA, which also includes McLaren, Renault, Toyota, BMW Sauber, Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso, said it would not compromise on the quality of the series by signing up unconditionally for the 2010 F1 season under the FIA's plans for cost-cutting. The FIA's deadline for entry was later Friday.

    FOTA's statement criticized the FIA's "uncompromising" stance and attempts, along with the commercial rights holder Formula One Management, to divide its member teams.

    As it stands, Williams and Force India will be the only current teams on the F1 starting grid next season while three new outfits — Campos Racing, Team US F1 and Manor F1 Team — are also due to enter.

    FIA president Max Mosley was insistent on introducing a voluntary $60 million budget cap for teams to curtail a "financial arms race" in F1. Those that don't agree to the cap would have more technical restrictions, something Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo had called "fundamentally unfair."

    Now F1 looks set to lose some of its biggest names, including championship leader Jenson Button of Brawn.

    "The teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 world championship," FOTA said after a meeting near Silverstone. "These teams, therefore, have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners.

    "This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders. The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series."

    FOTA said its efforts to remain part of Mosley's series had been hampered by the FIA's approach to negotiations.

    "The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA," the group said. "The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006.

    "Despite this, and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise."

    Amid the global economic downturn, FOTA said it has already embarked on substantial cost-cutting.

    The independent Brawn GP team only rose from the ashes of Honda after the Japanese automaker pulled out of F1 late last year as it was forced to focus on its core business. Yet now Button and Brawn teammate Rubens Barrichello occupy the top two spots in the drivers' standings going into Sunday's race.

    "FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport," the statement said. "In particular, the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives. The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future."

    The drivers had already been preparing for radical developments to emerge from Thursday's FOTA talks.

    Two-time world champion Fernando Alonso made it clear in the paddock on Thursday that he would leave F1 if his Renault team pulled out of F1.

    "For me the new Formula One would be unattractive, with the small teams and no drivers," Alonso said. "We want to compete with the best teams in the world, the maximum technology: We all want to compete with the best drivers.

    "If this is not what Formula One is about next year, then it will be another category with that. I won't retire, I will drive for another championship."

    Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    To tell the truth, this surprises me. I figured FOTA would crumble before the Friday deadline.....it still may, but I expected to see signs of complete collapse already rather than this sort of united stance from the remaining eight teams. Or maybe it's just another bluff.....only time will tell. :popcorn:
     
  6. Squirlz

    Squirlz New Member

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    Big long time fan here. I think it's a great season! It will be interesting to see how things work out. Max and Bernie have been trying to kill F1 for years. Maybe it finally worked. People need to tell them to shove it.
     
  7. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

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    +1 to everything you said Squirlz. Bernie and Max can eat a big one. I hope F1 lives on in a different form without them and becomes a hotbed for relevant innovation like it once was.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    I agree, Dumb and Dumber need to lose the battle. It's a shame though that making that happen might mean huge turmoil, but that sort of change is also exciting. F1 is gradually being crushed under the weight of its own bureaucracy and maybe the best cure is to cut off the head, bury it, and start over.
     
  9. Sideways

    Sideways New Member

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    Anyone else see shades of CART/Champcar VS. IRL???
    BTW - IRL and Tony George can bite my Shiney Metal A$$
     
  10. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    FOTA/IRL merger for 2012 season

    Bring the Indy 500 back into the championship run.

    Open the rules to allow for innovation that shows up in our daily drivers. Set overall dimensions, wheelbase and min weight. Let the engineers innovate from there.
     
  11. Ryephile

    Ryephile New Member

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    Is it just me or does anyone else like the idea of a budget cap [for vehicle development]? It's completely relevant to the auto industry, where we have essentially zero dollars to develop the platform with perfect reliability. A budget cap doesn't restrict innovation however it does force value, which is always a good thing in the auto industry. The cap doesn't need to be painfully restrictive, just realistic so F1 is still top-shelf but not astronomic as to be unreasonable [i.e. Toyota blowing cash out their arse].

    Good idea?
     
  12. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    But how do you implement and enforce it? In theory it's a great idea, but in the practical sense, it's so hard to enforce, and there are so many grey areas, and a number of ways that you could skirt the rules.

    IMHO, it will hinder innovation--to cap, you're probably going to have to limit what engines/parts can be used, so while there will be impetus to squeeze every last bit out of what's available, there won't necessarily be as much of a push to develop something radically new. I'm not necessarily opposed to a setup where you're limited to a certain setup/engine; it does level the playing field somewhat. But then you'd also have to limit testing, etc. which will also hinder innovation.

    I don't pretend to know what the right answer is, but there are pro's and con's to each setup. I just wish this could be worked out between the sanctioning body and the big boys, because in the end this is going to hurt everybody.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #13 Steve, Jun 19, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
    Yep, one of the biggest criticisms of the budget cap idea is it will be almost impossible to police. I'm not saying that's the reason to ice the idea -- I'm not sure what I think about it -- but you're definitely not alone in questioning its practical application.

    I like Ryan's thought that it wouldn't necessarily hinder innovation so much as force them to focus on value. We pundits complain that F1 needs to be free to innovate without restriction not only because of the show it provides but because those innovations trickle down into street cars, etc. But I have to think innovations spawned of audacious spending have somewhat less practical chance of trickling down to my next car than they would if the engineers and designers were forced to be more $-conscious as they develop.

    I do hope there won't be an IRL/Champ type split. Based on that history, if the series splits in two, everybody suffers -- and the longer it stays that way, the longer they suffer. On the one hand you'd have the new series groping around for venues and backers and new teams, ETC. On the other you'd have F1 trying to make a go with Williams, Force India and three new teams, trying to find more new teams willing to jump in right away, trying to maintain the current venues and calendar, ETC. What a mess, esp. in the devilish details.

    I think it would be better to either wipe the F1 slate nearly clean and install new heads, or kill it quickly, walk away from the current burdensome rules and hierarchy and start over from scratch.

    Meh, I don't know. Whatever happens (if ANYthing actually changes), imagine the twisted, legal nightmares to come!
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Too bad it's too late for a FOTA/Champ merger.....
     
  15. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    FEDERATION INTERNATIONALE DE L' AUTOMOBILE
    PRESS RELEASE
    WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL
    The World Motor Sport Council met in Paris on 24 June 2009. The following
    decisions were taken:
    FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
    All currently competing teams have committed to the FIA Formula One World
    Championship.
    There will be no alternative series or championship and the rules for 2010
    onwards will be the 2009 regulations as well as further regulations agreed prior to
    29 April 2009.
    As part of this agreement, the teams will, within two years, reduce the costs of
    competing in the championship to the level of the early 1990s. The manufacturer
    teams have agreed to assist the new entries for 2010 by providing technical
    assistance.
    The manufacturer teams have further agreed to the permanent and continuing
    role of the FIA as the sport’s governing body. They have also committed to the
    commercial arrangements for the FIA Formula One World Championship until
    2012 and have agreed to renegotiate and extend this contract before the end of
    that period.
    All teams will adhere to an upgraded version of the governance provisions of the
    1998 Concorde Agreement.
    The following teams have been accepted for the 2010 FIA Formula One World
    Championship.
    TEAM CONSTRUCTOR
    SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI
    VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES
    BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM BMW SAUBER
    RENAULT F1 TEAM RENAULT
    PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING TOYOTA
    SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO STR TBA
    RED BULL RACING RBR TBA
    AT&T WILLIAMS WILLIAMS TOYOTA
    FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
    BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN TBA
    CAMPOS META TEAM CAMPOS COSWORTH
    MANOR GRAND PRIX MANOR COSWORTH
    TEAM US F1 TEAM US F1 COSWORTH
    In view of this new agreement and with the prospect of a stable future for
    Formula One, FIA President Max Mosley has confirmed his decision not to stand for re-election in October this year.
     
  16. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    So the bottom line is they forced Mosley out. About time.
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Mosley was already planning to leave at the end of his current term. He threatened a day or so ago to take that plan back because he figured he was needed to help the FIA fight the evil FOTA. Now I can't figure out when he'll be out. Most articles I've read so far say he just went back to his original plan to not run for the office again this October. Only one I saw said his departure is effective immediately.....here's hoping.

    Oh well, he's either out at the end of the season (as already expected) or out right away.

    So (though we're not being asked to nominate or vote), who would you like to have at the head of the FIA? I think it would be fun to see Eddie Jordan and Paul Stoddart on the short list, though neither will be near the running.
     
  18. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    I would go for Jean Todt. (SP?)
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Yep, I figure the REAL short list (though less entertaining) might include Todt, along with Jackie Stewart and Ron Dennis.
     
  20. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    #20 goaljnky, Jun 24, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
    Jackie Stewart would be an excellent choice. While Dennis would bring a car load of expertise (pardon the pun) I think he would be a bit too polarizing a figure to follow Max. I think with all of Max's recent controversies FIA voters will opt for someone less controversial.
     

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