2nd Gen R55 Clubman Alignment Problem

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by Minidave, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    '09 Clubman S, 30K miles.

    New tires (Kumho ASX 215/45-17 on stock S Lites) and alignment done last July at 18K miles, when I rotated the tires last week I noticed the rears were really feathered badly on the inside edges, the fronts were almost down to the wearbars! I usually rotate every 5K but I got a little lazy on this set I guess. The last set of these Kumhos I ran went 30K....

    Took it to a good alignment shop this time instead of the local NTB and they can't get the rear to come into spec on toe - it's toed in .37 and it's supposed to be no more than .20.

    I did change the rear swaybar at about 5K, and the shop tried shifting the rear subframe around to see if they could get closer to spec, but no joy there. ( got it to go from .37 to .34)

    Any ideas?

    Why is it out of spec? No curbs have been hit - no curb rash on the wheels.

    Potholes? Yes certainly, but how could it be bent that it only affects the toe from a pothole?

    Adjustable lower controls arms will fix it, right?

    I prefer to keep the suspension as it is - stock, but are there other parts I should consider adding/changing at only 30K miles?
     
  2. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

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    The subframe is attached with slotted holes. So loosen those, and pry the subframe, IMO thats where the issue is. On my first gen, it moved very easily w/ a strategically placed pry bar.

    To adjust toe with the control arms, you will need BOTH upper and lowers. Just lowers will allow adjustment of camber, but not toe on their own.
     
  3. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    #3 Minidave, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011
    Yes, I went and looked at the diagrams on Real Oem, I see what you mean.

    However, won't moving the subframe cause one side to be toed in and the other toed out?

    I don't have that situation, both sides are toed in....

    Also, we tried that while it was on the rack, it went from .37 to .34., but both sides were at the limits of their adjustment holes, so it really didn't matter where the subframe was moved.

    I'm going to go spend some time looking at it and measuring in the garage, I think something's not right with what they're telling me....
     
  4. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

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    Are they adjusting the forward most mount of the trailing arm to tune the toe ?

    Wouldnt be the first shop not to do it the correct way...
     
  5. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Unless something's bent, there should be plenty of room to adjust the rear toe. I'd have to question the alignment shop on this one. Is this shop familiar with BMWs? They're set up the same way.
     
  6. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    They seemed to know what they were doing....they showed me the right bolt and they could tell it was at the end of the adjustment hole.

    I'm going to look at it myself tomorrow when the bride's car is out of the garage, so I can get it up in the air.....
     
  7. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

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    Ok, yeah they werent adjusting the right part of the car.

    To adjust toe in the rear, you need to loosen the THREE bolts (per side) that hold on the front trailing arm bushing. That bushing has slotted holes, and is the correct way to do the alignment.

    #7 Here:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Agree.
     
  9. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I know. They showed me that the bracket was all the way over in the slots....

    I'm wondering if it could be the subframe after all, but like I said, if it is then theoretically it should be toed out on the other side. I'm going to play with it tomorrow, then if I find anything significant, I run it back to them and let them finish the job on the machine.
     
  10. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    :cornut: A technical thread that I completely understand,GREAT! Man when y'all start talkin that computer talk,I'm lost.:lol::Thumbsup:

    Jason:popcorn:
     
  11. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    I wonder if removing that part & slotting the bolt holes a bit more would do it.
     
  12. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Yep, I was thinking along the same lines....
     
  13. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

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    Thing is though, that shouldnt be necessary at all. I am sincerely lost as to why your suspension is so far off whack.

    Photos maybe ? of the bolt holes, and then also the essentric bolts in the control arms ?
     
  14. KC Jr 54

    KC Jr 54 New Member

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    Did you ever resolve this issue ? Could be good to know for future reference what was the cause.
     
  15. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Update: I had a coupon show up from my local dealer for a half price alignment, so off I went....

    Their most senior tech did it and said it was in spec! He guessed that the guys at the other shop just didn't have the machine on the wheels right or set up wrong or something. He tweaked it a bit for good measure but said overall I was in spec. As to the tire feathering, the only suggestion he had was to rotate them more often.....which I normally do every oil change (7,500 mile intervals or twice a year) and failed to do this last time as the interim oil change was done under the maint program at the dealer.

    Now here's the fun part.......

    I had a track day on Aprl 20th at Heartland Park road course, and after screaming around the track all day my tires are quiet as when new! I guess I scrubbed off the uneveness going around those corners! I have another track day today, one on June1st, which will be just about time for another oil change and rotation, and another in early July. I may go ahead and buy new tires just before we head to MITM, these will only have 20K on them by then, but they'll be well worn if I do the scheduled three more track days by the end of July. Not sure what to get to replace them at this point tho....

    Bottom line, maintain correct air pressure and rotate frequently to maximise the life of your tires, just like your Dad taught you.
     
  16. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    If you had serious feathering problems, you had a toe issue. It might have been corrected later but my guess is your initial alignment was not so good. I always question when a tech says "in spec." I need to see a printout.

    I am not very diligent about rotating my tires and I do not remember the last time I had feathering on my tires (for my previous 2 cars). I almost always run 0 toe front and rear though. And I generally do run a decent amount of camber.

    - Andrew
     
  17. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    What is the purpose of toe? Or maybe I should ask... what is the result of toe or 0 toe. don't mean to hijack.
     
  18. andyroo

    andyroo New Member
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    Toe-in means that the fronts of your tires are closer together. Top view would be something like this / \ (obviously that's a pretty extreme example ;))

    Toe-out means that the fronts of your tires are farther apart. Top view would be this \ /

    0 toe is when the tires are pefectly parallel. ||

    Toe in can add stability. Toe out can help the car turn and rotate easier. It's often used for atuo-x cars (but not always).

    Both have much more of an affect on the rate of tire wear than camber. I generally recommend 0 toe for the best compromise, especially for the street. Sometimes a little toe-in is okay, and for auto-x cars a little toe-out is fine too. Some of it is driver preference and 0 toe is just what I go with.

    My old boss would say that a lot of toe out will make the car feel faster, but it takes a lot more effort and you end up with a laptime close to what you would have gotten anyway. But it's car, set-up, and driver specific.

    - Andrew
     
  19. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Thanks Andrew... I knew what toe in and toe out was, I just wasn't sure how it affected the dynamics of the vehicle. And in the case of the MINI, does 0 toe make it twitcher?

    In the "Old Days" I would set up my toe at 0 on my Mercury Capri (the sexy european). I did it with a wooden dowel rod inside a short length of copper tubing. I would locate the same level position on the inside wheel rim and extend my contraption to the opposite wheel. Make a mark on the wood dowel and for the front and back point on the rim. The distance between the two marks was the toe in or toe out. I would adjust the control arm accordingly until the two lines became one. All the while keeping the steering wheel centered. Took a few trips under the car, but it worked.
     
  20. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    0 toe on the Mini doesn't make it overly twitchy, at least not on mine... 2cents
     

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