1st Gen R53 Cooper S Alternator might be dead.

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by nabeshin, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. nabeshin

    nabeshin New Member

    Jun 8, 2009
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    I think my alternator is dead. For the past week there has been a new engine speed dependent whine. Different than the a/c whine (that is dying too).

    Anyway, last night I get home and my remote won't lock the car, so I have to manually lock it. I thought that the battery finally died. The lights didn't flash to indicate it was locked, and the locking pin didn't make it's sound. I didn't think much of it because this was only the second time in history that I've ever locked my car manually, and I forgot what it was supposed to do.

    So this morning I go to start it and there is no electrical activity at all. I plug in the battery charger and call in a lift to work. Well, turns out that when I partially closed the hood, the cables came off and the battery didn't charge. It is charging now though, I set it up after work. I'll check on it after dinner and try starting the car to check the alternator.

    There was never any warning lights, codes, or dimming headlights.

    My battery charger can put out a range of amps and diagnose the battery and alternator. However, even with the 100amp start mode, the car failed to turn over, and all lights and gauges in the car flickered. Normally, with a dead battery, this charger unit can start a car that has no electrical activity at all.

    Anyone have any theories? Would a dead alternator or voltage regulator* interrupt the circuit and prevent the car from starting? Something obviously caused the battery to die as soon as I shut the car off.

    Changing it will be easy, swallowing the $300+ will not be (pelican parts, reman). The dealer would have $700 for the same part, new.

    *The voltage regulator can be ordered separately, and is attached to the alternator, surprisingly, the dealer would be cheaper for this. All price quotes from RealOEM, so I hope my dealer won't price gouge.
     
  2. CHKMINI

    CHKMINI Club Coordinator
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    Check the connection at the jump stud terminal under the hood and close to the firewall, left middle. That connection has been known to come loose and will cause no charge to the battery.

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
     
  3. nabeshin

    nabeshin New Member

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    I'll have to take a look at that connection.

    I tried switching the "engine lightning bolt" relay with the "snow flake" one, just to test, but the car was still dead. So I tried hooking the charger directly to the battery. The car started right up with the 100amp start mode. The battery showed fully charged and the alternator put out 14volts.

    After I got the car started I poked around the engine bay and heard a hissing noise and noticed that the vacuum line from the pcv valve was split. I fixed that, the car was off of the charger at this point. I then attempted a restart. The car started up just fine without assist. Then I shut it off and put the relays back in their original spots. It still worked.

    Could a relay be dying and working intermittently? How would I test one (besides switching them around)? What kind of electrical reading should those give on a multimeter? Electricity is magic to me. I don't understand any of it beyond what the values and units should be for car batteries.

    Possibly related:
    Over the past few months, I have been logging an electrical issue. The car would start up normal, then suddenly loose all electrical power and die. After turning the key off, the car started up normal as if nothing had happened but the trip was reset and the temps were back to ºF instead of ºC. This has happened 4 times already, random spacing.
     
  4. CHKMINI

    CHKMINI Club Coordinator
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    When I had my R53 I had intermittent losses of power and that's when we found the loose jump stud. Did you start the car by connecting directly to the battery? If you used the jump stud under the hood you may have positioned it to where its making contact (if loose). I would ask Doctor O...
     
  5. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    This sounds more like it

    This can only happen if some of the brains of the car are completely disconnected from a power source. I have no clue where the problem is, intermittant electrical issues are the hardest to pin down, but it sounds much more like you have an intermittant open than anything else.

    But really, I have no clue where to look for it.

    Let us know what you find!

    Matt
     
  6. nabeshin

    nabeshin New Member

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    So could it be the main relays in the engine bay fuse box? Those are only $14 a piece, it seems. It wouldn't hurt to replace the "lighting bolt engine" one.

    The battery cables are tight and in good shape. I also hooked the battery charger to the engine terminals again with the car running and it read a full battery and 14.3 volts charge from the alternator. The positive terminal was tight and the cable looked good.

    The car had started up this morning just fine, but I got a ride to work again. When I got back, the car started fine again. I've yet to drive it since this happened. I'll take it tomorrow if it starts, and I'll listen for the alternator whine.

    It was also suggested that I check out the belt tensioner and get the car up to inspect the alternator cables from below, it seems that they can somehow chafe and not deliver full power.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  7. Motoring Magic

    Motoring Magic New Member
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    How old is your battery?

    and how has the weather been? weird, question, I know, but heat as well as cold can take its toll on a battery and you could have a cell connection inside the battery failing.. I have seen this several times, new battery has fixed it every time. This is a carryover from my motorcycle days, when the bike would start fine, then after a hard romp up a canyon, it would not start again, especially in the hot summer months. The connections in the bottom of the cells that tie the plates together erode until they make poor or no contact. If your battery is more than 30 months old and it is hot out, I would replace it and see if your problems go away.
     
  8. lotsie

    lotsie Club Coordinator

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    ^^^ I was wondering the same thing, it can be intermittent. Even if there is "some" voltage, the MINI is very sensitive to having enough voltage to let it think it is "safe" to do anything.

    Mark
     
  9. nabeshin

    nabeshin New Member

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    For more than a month it has been around 95ºF with a heat index near or just under 110ºF and something like 99% humidity. :crazy:

    I got some engine codes today. One was because of the pcv valve vacuum hose that was split, and the other was something to do with vehicle speed calculation error.

    P0500 - Vehicle Speed Sensor 'A' --- this one caused the tire "!" light to stay solid
    P2270 - O2 Sensor Signal Stuck Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 2) --- this was just the "service engine soon" The light was on this morning, first time driving the car after fixing the vacuum leak. The light was gone when I left work and I drove right over the AutoZone across the parking lot.
     
  10. Motoring Magic

    Motoring Magic New Member
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    I bet a new battery fixes all your gremlins.................
     
  11. Onasled Racing

    Onasled Racing New Member

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    I believe if your alt has failed then your power steering pump would not be running also. The PS pump only turns on when the alt is putting out good voltage.
     
  12. nabeshin

    nabeshin New Member

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    My car seems ok for now. I'll call it mechanically sound and fit for regular use. If anything electrical goes bad again, I'll try a new battery.

    Would a battery load test reveal anything? Is that what Autozone does when they hook up to a battery?
     
  13. Motoring Magic

    Motoring Magic New Member
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    maybe-maybe not. If the plates connections are failing, a load test may pass fine, assuming the car is working fine. Thats the problem with a deteriorating battery plate connection-it works or doesn't, so testing when it is working won't reveal anything.
     
  14. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    The problem Nabeshin.........
    Is going to be when you are stuck in some out of the way spot after midnight on a rainy / stormy / blizzardy / mudslidy / tsunamiy / lightingy / dead end road with Jason and his chainsaw lurking about. If your battery is old, just get a new one, you'll be better off. :Thumbsup:
     
  15. lotsie

    lotsie Club Coordinator

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    I'm with the new battery crowd. O'Reilly Auto Parts has them for about $90, and they give you $12 for the old one.

    Mark
     
  16. nabeshin

    nabeshin New Member

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    I had the start-my-car-then-all-power-fails issue again today. I have been keeping records of it, and had just forgotten the figures. Today was the 9th time.

    "If anything goes bad, I'll try a new battery."

    Well, I got a new battery from Autozone. 100% free. Seems Optima has a 3 year free replacement warranty. They put their tester to my battery (over the cable connections) and it came out bad.

    Once the new one was in, the car was dead. Autozone buy tried to jump me with his Golf, but it didn't work. I had to get jumped by a guy's enormous diesel truck. The Autozone guy checked the battery beforehand and it read good. He also rechecked my old battery directly at the terminals and it read good as well.

    The consensus is that some cable between the battery and the engine is bad, but that any looseness or resistance was overcome by the sheer ampage of this guy's diesel, something that the Golf couldn't provide.

    Isn't there some kind of replaceable segment just off of the positive terminal?

    I also figured out that this issue is connected to my tach reading 1,000 rpm too high a week or two ago (may have not reported it here). After this battery business, my tach was again reading 1k too high, but a gauge cluster reset (called an "ECU reset" on the sewing site) fixed it this time too.

    My car ran great the rest of the day and started up somewhat better than usual at all my errands.

    I still got to keep the free new battery, though.
     
  17. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    The Optima isn't a standard plate design

    so the plate problem referenced before is very, very unlikely. Like I said before, this reaks of a loose connection somewhere. Where I have no clue...

    Matt
     
  18. Mr. Jim

    Mr. Jim Mudshark
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    Check for loose grounds as well. When I first got RDNZL and installed the TSW engine damper I didn't properly tighten the engine ground and had similiar problems. Drove it all the way to the dealer to drop off then halfway home realized it and called them to check it. That's what it was
     
  19. CHKMINI

    CHKMINI Club Coordinator
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    See my post #2 and #4. This is the same issue that I had with my R53 a couple of years ago. I too replaced the battery and was about to replace the alternator when I decided to check all battery cable connections. The jump stud terminal located on the firewall, under the hood, in a black plastic box (about 2" x 2") had a loose connection at the terminal. (This terminal is NOT located near the battery) I took the terminal apart, cleaned it and put it back together. Instant fix.
     
  20. nabeshin

    nabeshin New Member

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    That terminal seemed tight. I'll have to undo it, clean it, and confirm tightness.

    I'll check the main engine ground where my oil catch can used to be. The nut there is badly corroded from something. (critically obvious things sometimes fail to surface from my crazy mind) Perhaps the nut was corroded due to the years in the oil catch can, but then oiled metal shouldn't rust, right? Might have to get a new nut and take a wire brush to that ground cable's contact plate. Come to think of it, the oil can seemed to drip rust... was steel wool inside a bad idea? I mean, that Alta foam crap didn't last a month.
     

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