MINI has been unsustainable as a brand for BMW since it’s launch in 2001. That’s what BMW is admitting with the announcement that MINI will share BMW’s new front wheel drive architecture. As with most automakers BMW needs to leverage every one of its platforms to make sure it’s profitable and allows for economies of scale. So BMW fully intends to rectify this with the 3rd generation MINI. Most MINI enthusiasts may look at this as the inevitable decline of the MINI brand and product. But on the contrary we believe this will give MINI technologies and performance that have never been available to it. The question (in our minds) will be whether or not they can maintain the MINI “feel” we all love. The good part is MINI knows that feel is as much of the brand as anything. Let’s talk product. Yes BMW is creating a front wheel drive car that will share the platform and engines of the next generation MINI. However if there’s one thing that BMW are experts on it is creating distinctly different products across the same platform BMW intends to continue if not enhance the MINI’s core attributes (go-kart feel being the most important) while making the related BMW product more upscale and refined. Another thing BMW can do is make exceptional front wheel drive cars – the 1st and 2nd generation MINI are the perfect examples of this. So what do these economies of scale offer the MINI brand? For one it allows BMW to develop all technologies in house and not share them with any other brand. That means exceptional engines (the thing that BMW has been known for for over 50 years), more modern chassis (potentially lighter and definitely safer) and new drivetrain technologies. The latter could be the most interesting to MotoringFile readers. We think it will mean three things; hybrid drivetrains, dual clutch transmissions and all wheel drive. BMW fully intends to extend it’s EfficientDynamics program further into Hybrids and the next logical step would be in smaller cars such as the new MINI and BMW front wheel drive twins. Going Hybrid would allow BMW to offer a dramatically more efficient car without the legislation issues of diesel in the brand’s largest market – the US. This also could mean fully electric vehicles as well. With the MINI E being a test bed for the BMW ActiveE and eventually the iSetta city car, one would expect BMW’s newly found electric expertise to extend into other small cars under the corporate umbrella. Finally look for a new family of BMW engines ranging from super efficient 3 cylinder petrol and diesel powerplants to more powerful four cylinders. All will be equipped with turbos and will blow away the current range when it comes to efficiency while upping the power. If an engine is the heart of a car, a transmission is the brain behind it. And if there’s one thing that we’ve critiqued over the years it’s been MINI’s automatic transmission. As much as we don’t like the idea of automatics in MINIs, there’s little question that a dual clutch transmission (DCT) would go a long way in making a clutchless MINI a lot more fun. It would also instantly become the quickest MINI 0-60 in each model while raising efficiency over the aging Aisin automatic. Finally the one technology that has been asked pleaded for by some MINI owners is all wheel drive. Yes the Countryman will offer it but MINI owners have been clamoring for a performance awd MINI a la the Golf R. While we can’t guarantee this will happen, we do know that the new chassis that will underpin both the MINI and FWD BMW will accept all wheel drive. The current MINI chassis was never intended for AWD (without pricey modification) and MINI engineers gave up on the idea in late 2004. At the very least this gives MINI an interesting possibility for a future JCW product. Clearly there is a lot to be gained with the BMW tie-up. Yet there are also some concerns. The one that comes to mind first is the loss of the soul that has made MINI always feel so unique. BMW claims they can engineer that into the chassis, engine and electronics. That may be the case but it’s still very much an open question to us. Unfortunately reality is that MINI simply cannot compete in a future full of large automotive conglomerates churning out hot hatches by the dozen. Even if most are throw-aways, eventually a few will be worthy competitors. In fact there are more than a few that already are. Given that it’s the right time for BMW to flex it’s corporate muscle and give the MINI brand the technology and engineering it needs to succeed in the years ahead. The brand has been built. The customer base secured. Now the products need to take the next step and not only live up to expectations but surpass them. (And yes, that last bit was meant for the people at MINI as much as anything) From MotoringFile
All that may be true, but what I see is bigger, heavier and more complicated (read: expensive) All things a MINI is not supposed to be...... And this is where I see them making a big mistake with this brand, very few people buy a MINI for luxury - we buy it because it's fun! Because it handles. Because it goes, stops and turns like nothing else. Because it gives so much bang for the buck. Adding 18 layers of luxury is the wrong way to go, IMHO. i-drive, power everything, all make it heavier and more complex.....
I totally agree! I do not want all wheel drive. All it does is add weight. Light, responsive, fast and fun
This is how it works with every sports car. The first generation is light, nimble, and soulful. Then they give it more power, more gadgets, and more weight to match the heftier price tag. Finally it looks nothing like the original but still sells like hotcakes to the masses. The old timers, spec racers, and boy racer wannabes mourn the loss of the original and scour junkyards and craigslist for parts and clean examples. See also: BMW 3 series, Mazda Miata, Porsche 911, VW GTI, etc.
Yep..... And someone explain to me why the more you make of something, the more it costs (in today's automotive world), every other industry the more you make of a product, the less each costs. See: food, electronics, etc, etc MINI has built over 3 million MINIs, why does each successive one cost more than the last? (Answer: because they can?) If you really want to boost your volume, do what Henry did - every year the Model T got better and cost less! He sold millions of 'em, just here in the states!
Ahhhh...... The selling price of something doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what it costs to make.
Here's an interesting story... when Sony first started to make Walkmans, the price was X. One big retail outlet asked what would it cost if they bought a lot more. The answer was about 2X... Sony had to make another factory! Really, we can complain all we want about trends, but that is the nature of the beast. While we all say we want a sparten, light and nimble car, how many want hand crank windows? Seats without adjustable recline? No A/C? While I agree with a lot of the sentiments, the 2nd gen was lighter than the first gen (by a very little bit).... But what do we want? A Mini only chassis? A Mini only powerplant? If you do want these, the economies of scale don't work, there aren't enough units built. You can look at pretty much every other car company that sells inexpensive cars, and there is tons of chassis/powerplant/etc sharing to lower costs. Anyway, the concept is sound, it's the execution of the details that will say whether it works for both the MINI and BMW markets. Matt
Can't wait for that 3 Cly BMW MINI.:frown2: Maybe at least it won't have a Peugeot lump under the bonnet. It seems as though every new generation gets more gizmo's & plushness. Just like the R56 is softer than the R53 the next Gen will be softer still. All in the name of more sales. What price progress?
Well said! Nothing against the R56 but 30 years from now if there is a beloved BMW MINI Classic it will be the first gens. A great little sports car built for the enthusiast in limited production before it's charactor was pasteurized out of it for mass consumption ......
***** all one wants... BMW has to do something about thier fleet MPG numbers. And they have to do something to get people into the cars at a lower price point early on in the brand association game. A new small BMW isn't aimed at the guys who buy a 7 series or an M3, it's aimed at the college grad and also as a MPG counter to those monster engines in the larger cars. The one series has a nice driving dynamic, but it's really more of a 4 year old 3 series coupe than a seriously smaller car. The buzz is that the new small BMW may not come to the US, and that I can totally understand! Heck, full sized pickup sales are INCREASING here in the land of no short term or long term memory. Over in Europe, the path for increased emissions regulation and high fuel costs are a bit more obvious, as is BMWs willingness to sell cars that are more entry level than here. So, let's say MINI doesn't share chassis with other BMWs. Let's say they go thier own way in power plant production as well. What are you left with? Something like the car we have now, at an even higher price point. This isn't a big winner in the marketplace as the competition provides more HP, good handling, and real gauges in the car. Personally, I don't care that much about if the suspension is a bit softer or not in the next car, if I'm serious about handling the stock tires, wheels and a good bit of the suspension goes in the scrap heap, just like what I did with my 2002. I'm a car guy who likes MINIs. But that said, other cars are catching my eye more and more. To keep me in the fold with new cars, MINI has to provide more value per dollar than the current trajectory is aiming at. How do they do this if technology sharing isn't allowed? I'll be damned if I can figure it out. Matt
But it seems like BMW/MINI is more interested in getting new customers vs trying to hold on to the original owners. Unless things change drastically in their design, I will not be buying another new MINI. They screwed up with the R56 and haven't looked back. Bigger, fatter, and more"Connected" gizmos are not for me.
You don't have to buy Mini Connected and as an owner of both an 02 and an 08, the only two real complaints I have are the screwed up center stack on the new cars, and the fact that the heater core is never cool, so it's hard to get cool air out of the system without the A/C on. The Prince engine is a gem, that's for sure. I'm not sure that it's a fair charecterization to say that they don't care about keeping the first gen purchasers. A lot of them are the ones that complained about ride roughness in the first place. That's why the Sport Suspension got softened in 2002. The second gen is a bit lighter (a good thing that many forget about), the dampers have more travel (another good thing that many forget about), and the car is faster around a track than the 1st gen. I'd say a fair reading is that some of the changes weren't to the liking of some first gen owner, but were to the liking of other first gen owners. Any changes will annoy some, that's just the nature of change. But what is true is that if the 2nd gen had never come out, and we still had the tritec, then the brand would have been doomed. The tritec, while good in some respects, is a dirty little engine and won't cut it in the emmissions world that is coming (or is here) in pretty much all developed nations. So, what would one have them do? Car companies are like sharks, they go forward or die. How should MINI go forward in a way that keeps the original adopters happy and grows the brand? Porsche-philes often bemone the chyanne, but it pays the bills to keep all the flavors of 911 coming. What's so wrong with MINI doing something of the same to come out with cars that have wider mass appeal so that they can keep making a two door coupe that isn't a large enough volume seller to sustain a brand? While I do hear a bunch of complaints about how the changes don't suit some of the current owners (and I'm not saying these compaints don't have merit, they do as people who have paid for cars in the past are voicing that they may not in the future), I see very little in sugestions of a realistic approach that will keep those disaffected happy as well as help ensure that the brand is viable. Aren't the "twins" an attempt to give those that want more sport what they want? Can't a good set of coil overs return most of the feel of the 1st gen to the second gen? Or is it just that he wheel gaps are so huge than no amount of effort can save the car? Matt
Is that an accurate statement to say that MINI is unsustainable? For me, I can't compare the R56 to other MINIs because I haven't owned others. As a comparison to other cars I've owned, I'd say that it's incredibly fun to drive and a very unique looking car. Here in Canada we our completely ripped off with the pricing of the car and the OEM parts. My local dealer is good, but BMW/MINI in North America seems to be really lacking when it comes to some quality issues and doing the 'right thing' for the customer. :mad5: If people are willing to buy a 'premium' car, as BMW likes to refer to the MINI, then we deserve premium support from them when there are issues.
Go look at low volume producers that are profitable and they are all really high dollar cars. As the price of the car drops, it takes more and more units to pay for the cost of running a car company. Even the big boys leverage chassis/powertrain sharing. So if MINI, at already a problematic price point, especially when well optioned" wants to make money and grow, I don't see how it can happen without technology sharing. Matt
I've often wondered about that... BMW has a much higher average price point, so throwing in things like free service and the like isn't a huge hit. But MINIs start at $20k.... Free service costs a bit more.... I guess that's why the mileage counter is so conservative in the MINI, and you only really get two services now when one used to get three. But really, it doesn't matter the price point of the product, good customer service is just good business, free service or paid. Matt
the heater core is never cool, so it's hard to get cool air out of the system without the A/C on. Yeah, why is that? It's annoying, that's for sure! When I drive with the windows down I make sure the fan is off to keep the heated air off my legs or face. If the windows are up, unless it's really cool outside, the A/C has to be on. One way to grow the brand is exactly what they're doing, offering a whole bunch of body styles on the same platform - the only one that isn't is the newest one, built in a separate plant - but that platform will be used in the BMW empire, I'll bet - they wouldn't do an entire platform for only one car. Still, the price has risen steadily, and at some point the competition will be making serious inroads - both because there will BE competition and the fact that other's cars are getting better - I want to continue with the MINI brand, but I'm back to buying used ones at this point, and as they get even more expensive, where are those used cars going to come from? The new MINI market cannot continue it's unrelenting march upscale, at some point people will begin to balk - I think they already have....