1st Gen R53 Cooper S Cam Timing

Now Kids...have you ever hankered for an example of Internet Trolling...

This thread is just that.

It's not the questions asked, cause frankly they are good questions. What we have is a person (the OP) that knows the answers and baited someone to reply, i'm sure hoping it was the person that did reply.

What really and truly points to it being a trolling exercise is the OP's reply.

What a shame.

 

Virtually every cam manufacture will tell you the benefits of timing a cam. As for NEWMAN cams for MINI's they do not come with a cam card so checking them for correctness is impossible without knowing the engineering numbers so no one really knows where the heck there cam is set at let alone if you got the cam grind you expected from the supplier? Riddle that batman or NEWMAN cam owners? LOL



What is the point of this thread? The cam gears have been out for MINI's for over 6+ years. They have been brought up many time and I have even seen some here on those other forums and threads which included timing gears. For those that know how to use them there are benefits and increased performance levels (fact). For most who don't than having someone offer the work seems in line?
BTW even a custom MINI one off engineered for one engine and performance level can be adjust even more with an adjustable cam gear! There are so many scenarios on this I wouldn't know how to begin?

 

^^^^ Why am I not surprised we heard from this one too...

Come on people. surprise me, don't do the same old stuff...

 

Geez, back in the day before everyone had to run off to the dyno folks used to tinker with their engines themselves. An adjustable timing gear can be and has been used to advance or retard your OEM or performance cam. Used to dial the cam in to what your looking for in when and how the engine makes power. In the era I'm referring to this was in conjunction with spark advance, distributor dwell, valve lash settings and carb. jetting. You see, depending on car weight and gearing setup for the desired application of speed, time and distance you are pursuing you could manually make changes to where and when the engine developed HP or toque in the RPM range available. Other factors not mentioned would affect results also, the point is two identically built engines will not produce the exact same results performance wise. What the adjustable timing gear does is give you one more point/tool of adjust-ability to refine the tune. Granted we aren't tweaking these engines with the bygone methods and have lost control of valve lash but the fundamental stuff like ignition timing and fuel are still in the game and tweaked through the PCM/ECU during a tune these days. Cam timing is a critical element of engine efficiency and dialing in the cam is still important. Efficiency = performance.
That's my rant, now back to Word Association .

 

my .02 from actually having done cam timing dyno's
you are NOT going to see gains all the way across the rev range........not going to happen
anyone showing you this type of dyno graph is not telling the truth. You are going to see small gains either down low or up high. Its a single overhead cam. Affecting the intake also effects the exhaust. Where the cam gear will help you if you have an excessively decked head/block where the stock timing is now off. You can run this vs running a much thicker head gasket to put the timing back to "stock". Much skepticism should be exercised when seeing dyno's that show full gains across the rev range as someone isn't telling you the "whole truth"..........again my .02 from actually having tested this years ago. Having found a cam grinder than already has the cams timed correctly for engine at normal specs has made these almost obsolete.........a reason we stopped selling our own......

 

See I don't get this response? So are you saying what Lynn said is not true? You left the thread up.....for????? If you did not want responses, you should have closed the thread? Norm03s said essentially the same thing as Lynn....was he wrong too? Why are known power making techniques being questioned?

 

Personally I take attention to some threads that interest me, and I have somewhat experience with this topic on adjustable cam gears. Does that make me a troller? Guess it depends who is making that judgment?
I see this thread can be viewed a few ways by many people and not all have the history of those that post.
So lets take it as a positive thread inquiry about the subject matter and proceed that way individually the best we all can?

Lets take these good questions and see if a generic answer may help?

How do you know exactly what to set mine at when you haven't seen it on the dyno?
There are dozens of other ways to dial/tune an engine without the useful tool of a Dyno. And ultimately the best Dyno for optimum engine performance is always a Engine Dyno before it is installed in the chassis.

Have you dyno tested every variation of Cam and mods on a Mini?
Contrary to some belief no one has tested every possible combination of available performance parts for the MINI. NO ONE! There are claims by some of success with certain combination but in the real world total duplication is very unlikely.

How many actual dyno pulls on a Mini have you been physically present at to know all this?
What does this have to do with anyone's expertise or experience except to say that I have done x number(?) Chassis Dyno observations?

Then what happens if it slips?
Ever hear of RED Thread sealant(locktite), a torque wrench and checking fasteners after a good engine run? However life prevails and stuff (sht) happens?

PS: All the information on my Cam can be found on the Revolution Mini Works forum, as can all their cams....


NO the site does not give the camshaft specification that are useful with out a cam card or posted engineering numbers. I realize that some fear duplication but any part can be cloned we have already speculated many that have been over the years. In all fairness to this site mentioned no one else supplies the pre installation specifications I know of either. That is what the cam card when supplied during the pre installation inspection of the camshaft is for. Also if you go to NEWMAN cam web site and do the math (valve-train formulas)the cams advertised, their spec's make no sense at all?
That's advertising for you, the better the ad is the better sales are every-time!


Honestly the Camshaft adjustable Timing gear is not for everybody.It is a part available for some that simply want to get every bit out of there engine even if some parts or adjustments yield less than a HP?
Try adding or subtracting 2lbs air from your tires on a track, or on the street does that make a difference?

 

Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? I don't want to speak for Nate but I'm guessing that's were he is coming from.

 

:lol: I just realized what my signature has been for almost a year!!!! :lol:

 

Yes I know I was very generic with my answers. I also know that a few have tried these adjustable cam gears in the past for MINIs and had issues with them. It may be why some are only offering them as part of an install and not necessary as an individual part? IDK?


I contacted Henkel and talked extensively to their chemical development manager about the specific application. After using a product for years I was re educated on a couple of factors . It seems that failure of most application similar to the adjustable cam gear where RED locktite was used the matting surfaces were not surface clearance and there was oil residue on the fastener or the receiving thread during installation of parts. Taking a little more time with preparation i.e. cleaning everything with a none oil based cleaner and carefully checking mating surfaces will almost negate fastener failing to hold a component(s) together.

AS for a question of a worthwhile investment I still say that this is not for everyone. Would this be for you personally, I would say no. IMO you are like the majority that would rather see a higher yield to cost of gains then in smaller numbers.

 

IF you have seen the type of Gear I use, and did some very basic measure, you would see the 'screws' are to hold the adjustment UNTILL it is bolted on the camshaft.. then the design of the inner and outer pieces, when torqued on the camshaft actually 'press' both pieces together, making it impossible for the adjustments or gear to move!! Good point thought.. thanks for pointing that out, so I could clarify the construction of the assy I use when I degree the Thumper AdjustED Cam Gear.

LOL Nate we all could see what the first thread was all about!!

Oh, the movies were great by the way..

Just me............................

Thumper

 

:useless

ostcount