If the stock ecu can scale to 380cc, can the jcw scale to 420cc or 400cc? i trying to figure out what mods i can make without a tune and have found no definitive answers. there are various dynos of tunes on different sized injectors but dynos aren't comparable. :confused5: Thanks, Jonathan Ps, don't tell me to just get a tune and 550cc inj, im in no mans land of mini tuners, and if i can add more mods safely on the stock tune or a JCW i would rather do that for simplicity and reliability.
No, the ecu can not scale the larger injectors w/o an aftermarket tune. The JCW tune is on 380's and are at about max duty-cycle .
I 100% agree with the 2 post above. Back in the day I had 380's and I put 440's on weeks brfore my tune and well,,,,,it was not good time. I had to take them out until I got to the Dyno and had my tuner scale the tune for the larger injectors. My Tuner? See below.... :wink:
Do your homework if you go with other then stock cc size injectors and call Performance injector manufactures and ask what they recommend. They have been doing this longer then most MINI "tooners" and you may be surprised that you already have just what you need in your MINI already. To start you off with a couple: marren - fuel injection RC Fuel Injection Also never neglect the fuel supply and the fuel supply system with the stock MINI. So many claim that it is sufficient for larger then stock cc supplied injectors but is it? The stock R53 supplied fuel pump is bellow the supply rating of most injectors recommend and used by many MINI enthusiasts under 100% operation, this is not guess but mechanical specification as per Siemens the supplier of the R53 fuel pump. So just look into it and get all the fact before jumping into changes.
you can always listen to people on the internet who talk in theory.......or you can listen to people who have done it I'm running the stock fuel pump with over 400hp. Car has been driven to and from race tracks and across country. Be careful who you listen to
The OP came here looking for help in his quest, not for a tome on how to go research the matter on his own. With our collective wisdom gained over the years of working with these cars it has been shown time and time again that the larger injector the OP is asking does need to be scaled to work properly.
Forums is not collective wisdom when it is filled with dis-information and the recommendation based on the majority? Nathan the flow injector chart is one of many that all can use to find a recommend injector size for their engine. I could post the mathematical formula but it is simpler to find one of the many calculators available like the one I posted. The necessity to require ECU/EFI general calibration for 400cc or 420cc is not known in the application described without first running a data log and discusses the general application of the intended end use of the engine. Jan you might check with Siemens direct about the specification of the fuel pump. What you claim your personal use of this part is might get some into issues if they translate your information as facts about the fuel pump. Please post the specification when you talk to Siemens so those can decide for themselves. Or better yet get the specification and start a thread about fuel pumps and we will talk about it. Basically get the specification and post them> Anything less is unfair to some that trust what you say!!!!
it's NOT about trusting me......it's about watching me......................we have successfully tested the stock pump with our own additions and can SAFELY make 400whp...........again, I DON'T care what you think or say about it. I have logged the fuel pressure in OUR system and it doesn't fall off. Having worked with people who set records every year and have been doing this in the REAL WORLD we know what actually works instead of sitting at home playing with calculators.
Thanks Jan, this is great info coming from someone who has literately experienced hundreds if not thousands of dyno pulls whilst tuning Minis in all kinds of state of modifications, arguably more than any single person on planet earth. You say the OEM fuel pump is strong enough, that's good enough for this humble backyard garager. :cornut:
Just to add my 2¢ to the logic... if you start with a jcw210 tune...one that is already mapped for the 380's, the the jump is about the same from stock s to jcw 380's.... if you have the mods to make use of the fuel and not run rich, might be worth it... but they will not really be "scaled"....just dialed back by the fuel trims when not WOT. This will mean, depending on the need for the extra fuel, you may run pretty rich wot...but ok under light throttle. But keep in mind not getting the error code relies on you getting THE RIGHT JCW TUNE...THE JCW210 ...the regular pre-2005 jcw used the same injectors as an S. How it will run...i'm curious...if you a making more than the 210 or so hp the 380's are good for...say you have modes to do 245hp, you might do good...but that much hp, no tune would be quite a feat...i guess with a header, and cam, you might be close...but i suspect getting a remote tune might be better, both for reliability and drivability. I know the op has likely made his descesion by now, and perhaps he will update this thread with what he did....
Remote tune is good.. check the Mynes site and see what they say. I am at 240 WHP and my a/f is 11.3 at 7500 revs. my inj duty cycle is at max at 6900 revs.. I have a water-meth system that I run also. All my data says ( according the most MINI web sites) I should have blown up years ago..LOL I put in a set of 380's and only ran rich at lower RPM , had some starting issues due to over fuel. Yet they still reached their limits at 6900 rev ( a/f was in the mid 11's at WOT) I pulled them and went back to the OEM. I didnt want to take a chance of washing the rings.. for the same end result on the topend. I suggest the A/F fuel gage is needed if you are deep into moding the engine!! A data logger is also needed if you are that concerned. The posts on sites are just 'SWAGS', and you can see, and turn into crap and go off subject, when add'l information is suggested. Just me........................... Thumper PS: I have had my ign timing modified and my rev limits raised.. the rest is all stock ECM!!
Thumper & Zippy thanks for the info. I will probably go the Tune route come spring, i don't know who's but that doesn't matter. I was just curious if 380cc and the JCW 210 tune could support my current mods with a cam, Intercooler, and header mod. i wasn't quite sure if the added cost for the tune was worth the marginal increase in power but i think it will be for the added safety with injector overhead. Any thought are appreciated. -Jonathan
Nice discussion (despite the tone) of fuel pumps. I noticed that the Stage 4 (or whatever their highest stage package was) from Dinan had a higher flow fuel pump included (along with the other standard bits). I always wondered why they had an uprated fuel pump and nobody else seemed to be climbing on that bandwagon.
The orgional dinan test mini was said to have a bad fuel pump...so dinan not knowing this put a higher presure fuel regulator on the fuel line to up the fuel flow.... the story has neen around, and by all accounts appeas to be true...insiders from whitroof radio and motoring file have told the story a few times....
Cool. I've been listening to WRR since episode 2 and hadn't heard it (or perhaps it didn't stick when I did hear it). Thanks!