I just made my final payment to BMW Financial for Jango... he is now 100% mine! This also means that I'll have some extra cash each month to take care of a few things. The first item on the list is SUSPENSION! I am currently rolling on the TSW springs with the stock struts. After 60k miles (40k of those on the TSW springs at a lowered ride height), my stock suspension is starting to get a bit worn. Before MOTD 2011 (early May), I'm ready for coil-overs! How the car is used: Jango is predominantly a daily driver, but I do the occasional DE (1-2 per year) and some other sports driving (AutoX classes when I can get into 'em). I also occasionally tow my little trailer around. I am usually the only person in the car (we take the wife's Volvo SUV everywhere on the weekends), so I can deal with a stiff suspension on the road. Current suspension mods: - TSW springs on the stock struts - IE fixed front camber plates (-1.9 camber at each wheel) - 21mm adjustable hollow sway bar (rear only) - Adjustable lower rear control arms - Adjustable drop links on all 4 wheels - Powerflex LCA bushings up front and trailing arm bushings in the back Other mods: 17% pulley, Airbox, intercooler, cat-back exhaust, plugs, wires, coilpack, Wilwood BBK, and a host of other standard power/control mods... basically, a very well modded R53 S. I'm ready to take the next step w/ the suspension. Right now I'm considering the TSW (now Way Motorworks) KW variant 2 setup... I definately want the ride height adjustment of coil-overs and I think that I want the ability to control the damping for street/track use (but I'm not such a serious tweaker that I would want the variant 3 dual adjustmen t). http://www.waymotorworks.com/kw-vari...r50-52-53.html I've got a bunch of questions, though... 1. For my daily driver with a track twist car, what other options should I be looking at? I'm looking for performance parts... VMaxx makes a good unit for lowering inexpensively, but I can afford to do better. What about the Bilstein coil-overs? I do want ride height adjustability and some damper control, so I am limiting the search to coil-overs. 2. So after I get the coil-overs, what does the process look like? Did I get something out of order, below? Something I missed? - Install Coil-overs with the ride-height rough set - Choose a dampener setting - Drive a few hundred miles to let everything settle - fine tune the ride height - Do a corner weighting with my fat arse in the driver's seat at a good shop - Do a 4-wheel alignment 3. What alignment settings am I going to be looking for? I'm liking the -1.9 camber up front and -1.2 in the rear that I have right now. That's giving me a good balance of track grip and street friendliness without eating tires too rapidly. Any suggestions for changes for my mostly street/sometimes-track car?
Oh yeah... I gave a quick call to Way from Way Motorsports this morning. He was very generous with his time! Thanks Way. A brief summary of our conversation (I know you frequent this board, Way... if I got something wrong or missed a good point, please chime in): - He's having a hard time getting the better coil overs in stock other than the KWs, so that's a positive for the KWs. - He upsold the v3 units over the v2 for additional adjustability (better resale if ever needed plus he has 'em in stock ). I'm not sure if I need the tweakability of the v3s and they are $300 more. - I'll need new camber plates... he recommends the Vorschlags as they fit the KW coil-overs properly (the h-sports would work, but are a bit oversized through the bore for the KW coil-overs and are more expensive to boot) He recommended taking a few weeks to drive the car and get the ride height / damper setup where I like it, then going for the corner balance and alignment.
You might also take a look at Bilstein's PSS9. The progressive springs might work with your daily driving better.
I have the TSW V2's and IMHO the V3's are not necessary for anyone but a racer. There are a ton of variables that affect how the car will handle on any given day, track conditions, air temp, tire wear, etc. Adding another variable like different ratios between compression and rebound is not necessary for even the serious track junkie. As far as the performance of the V2's, I have been very happy with them. You might review some older threads on here with respect to spring rates. I seem to remember Greg (Onasled) recommending some different rates than what the TSW ones normally ship with.
I have the TSW V2, but I am such a novice I cannot compare with anything. But here are some links that helped me make my decision: http://www.motoringalliance.co…..ailed.html http://www.motoringalliance.co…..g-tsw.html http://www.motoringalliance.co…..-want.html http://www.michiganmini.org/fo…..ic=2455.30 http://www.fes-auto.com/upload…..0Basics.pd
I have TSW V-3s on my car and love them. I am also running the fixed camber plats and have not had any problem. I have a slight difference in camber left to right, that I will probably correct with adjustable plates. I am running 400 LBs springs front and back, because I wanted to have a serious autocross set up. I do not find the stiff springs terrible on the street unless you are driving around on city streets with bad pavement, but I do not believe I would recommend them for a daily driver. I use my MINI as a sometimes daily driver. I have a good bit of race car background, and understand how to tune double adjustable shocks. It isn’t that hard to learn, but you need to ask yourself if you want to add the complication. If you are autocrossing or driving on the track, is your time better spent thinking about you’re driving or adjusting the car? The KWs are twin tube shocks and that means they are shorter for the same stroke than mono tube shocks. Mono tube shocks are generally considered better for a lot of good reasons, but the KWs are very very good twin tube. I will point out that Olum the manufacturer of the most widely used professional racing damper makes twin tube shocks for small formula cars. The advantage of the KW twin tube shock is that it changes the mounting point and has a shorter overall length for the same stroke. That means at a lowered ride height you have the same travel as stock. When the car gets on the bump stops it will understeer. Can you say PUSH. The point of stiffer front springs is to stop the push and stiff rear springs is to balance the handling. Bilstein makes excellent products, but I think the TSW / Way KWs are better for the MINI. First you should be aware the KWs from Way are different than KWs normal product. The damping is different, and springs are linear. I have stated one difference between the two already, here are some more. What do you respond to and what conveys control when you turn into a corner? Most people prefer a linear response from the car. They like the car to roll smoothly over. Progressive springs make the car roll rate progressive. The idea of progressive springs is to have a more comfortable ride at lower speeds when you aren’t trying to corner fast. They are affective at that. Almost all pure race cars use progressive linkage between the wheel and the coil over. The reason is down force. They are trying to balance out the affects of down force. Bilsteins are single adjustable for bump and rebound. I could write 10 pages on all of this, but let’s leave it at this. If you look at real racing shocks they are non adjustable, single rebound adjustable, or double adjustable, and the really expensive ones are more adjustable. Shocks that are more than double adjustable increase or decrease the damping force at different shaft velocities. Rebound is the most important shock adjustment. If the car is pushing stiffen the rear shocks. If the car is loose stiffen the front shocks.
Time to res an older thread. Last Friday, I hit the Way Motorworks site and ordered the TSW-spec'd KW v2 coil-overs and Vorschlag camber plates (and a couple of impulsive purchase bits for the engine bay). I'll take pics and post 'em through the process. The next steps are: 1. Install coil overs and camber plates 2. fine-tune the ride height settings over the course of a few hundred miles. 3. Go in for corner balancing and a good alignment at a local speed shop.
It is just like Christmas, with Way and the UPS guy like Santa! Unfortunately, it will be at least a week before I can do the install.
The install happens this coming weekend + a bit over a week for me to sort out the ride height and then I'm off to a tuning shop in Fort Worth (PTP) for a corner balance, end link adjustment and full alignment. Woot!
Great thread! Following this thread early on is originally what helped me finally decide on the KWs when I was researching which coilovers to buy. Can't wait to get them installed in Fort Worth as well. Come on Discount...deliver my tires already!
I had a rear swaybar installed for me once... it was my first mechanical mod to Jango. After 1 month, the bolts that held the bushing bracket in place backed out and the bushing bracket came off while I was driving down the highway. I had to make the swap back to my stock swaybar that evening in the garage. As I cursed and stumbled my way through it with a print-out of a poorly written web how-to article (a rear sway install is a tough one to write up... why I shot a video how-to a few months later), I swore that I'd get better at doing it myself. Nobody treats your car as well as you will when you are well rested, attentive and prepared. It's important to know when you are in over your head, though, and to not be affraid to go back to the previous setup and call in the pros. I also feel better if something goes wrong... that I know how to fix it. When I had a spring break a few years ago, I was able to limp home, jack up the front end and do the swap back to stock immediately. I only got to work an hour or so late! I know that I don't have the equpment or knowledge to do the alignment or corner balancing, so I find the best guys that I can who will do the work at a reasonable price. I also prefer to use smaller shops and folks that sponsor the MINI community.
Both sooper and I went with the TSW spec'd KWv2 coil-overs and Vorschag adjustable camber plates (60mm perch) from Way Motorworks.
Agreed. There are a lot of great coilovers out there but in the end I decided on the TSW spec'd KWs because the springs are chosen specifically for the Mini. As far as I know you can only get them from Way Motor Sports, and only the KW V2 and KW V3 have the custom springs. Pair a set of KWs with the Vorshlags and you'll have a great setup. I also got the H-Sport swaybar and lower control arms, all recommended by Way. If you're still unsure give Way a call and let him know what you're aiming for and he'll make solid recommendations on what your options are.
I wish I had the know-how to do the install on mine. Even if I did my garage is so tiny I probably wouldn't have the room.