Engine Drivetrain 2nd Gen S Engine guru carbon question

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by mrntd, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Sep 30, 2011
    5,083
    1,762
    113
    Male
    Sales and Marketing manager
    Hilliard, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,763 / 0 / -0
    The carbon build up of the valves is a result of the crank venting oil into the intake. Our solution has been a can to collect it.

    It use to be vented to atmo but the epa said nay nay. So now the mfg decided to burn it. Not sure that's an improvement but that's a different discussion.

    Why not just drain it back into the pan? It doesn't mess up the valves, it isn't burned, and it doesn't go into atmo.
     
  2. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    19,445
    10,057
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +11,698 / 2 / -0
    My guess is all that vapor would not do the oil any favors or anything that oil lubricated. Not a guru & don't play one on TV. :)
     
  3. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Sep 30, 2011
    5,083
    1,762
    113
    Male
    Sales and Marketing manager
    Hilliard, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,763 / 0 / -0
    The vapor is oil and it should be any different than the oil that is circulated into and drained from the head.
     
  4. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,731
    7,688
    113
    Ex-Owner (Retired) of a custom metal fab company.
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,960 / 1 / -0
    Depends how you drain it back.

    If you connect the PCV hose directly back to the oil drain pan... Expect to have blown seals and leaky gaskets...

    If you are thinking of draining the collected liquid from the catch can back to the oil pan... That would work... Some models of BMW work this way...

    An oil catch can operates on the principle of phase separation. Liquid from the gasses.... The gasses get burned through the intake. The liquid (oil) gets collected. It all boils down to how efficient the separation is... As to how much oil vapor gets to the valves...
    None of the OCC are 100% effective... You can only expect to slow the buildup down....
     
  5. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Jan 5, 2010
    6,134
    1,588
    0
    Physician Assitant (retired)
    Sherman,Tx
    Ratings:
    +1,588 / 0 / -0
    #5 Jason Montague, Jan 21, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    :eek6: I'm shocked absolutely shocked that Metalman is recommending an OCC. Next thing you know he'll be recommending Seafoam and sporting lip stick,nail polish, and stilletto heels.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Jason
    My Margi(08 BRG R56 MCS/JCWm) has had a BSH OCC and BSH Dual Port for ~30kmi now and while extrolling their virtues I have had to engage in several sparring matches with Metalman and Crashton. AMAZING
     
  6. DneprDave

    DneprDave Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Oct 23, 2010
    2,959
    1,505
    113
    Engineer
    Pacific NW
    Ratings:
    +1,731 / 0 / -0
    The main reason for Crankcase Ventilation is to give blow by gasses a place to go. Piston rings don't seal perfectly, so there will always be blow by. Without crankcase ventilation, the crankcase would pressurize and, as Metalman said, blow your seals and make your gaskets leak. The oil mist from the crankcase gets carried along with the blow by gasses, and it ends up on the ground, in the case of a draft tube crankcase ventilator, or is burned by the engine in modern cars with a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system.

    Volvos also have a factory oil catch can that drains the oil back to the crankcase.

    Dave
     
  7. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,731
    7,688
    113
    Ex-Owner (Retired) of a custom metal fab company.
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,960 / 1 / -0
    JM....
    I have no clue where you get your info... Have never been against OCC...

    However.... Swampfoam is a waste of time and money if you think it will remove baked on carbon on the valves....

    Still waiting for pictures of before and after SF treatment...

    As far as lipstick and stilettos, well I'll let you corner the market on those items. ... :D
     
  8. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Jan 5, 2010
    6,134
    1,588
    0
    Physician Assitant (retired)
    Sherman,Tx
    Ratings:
    +1,588 / 0 / -0
    #8 Jason Montague, Jan 21, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    :cornut: See Thread-'Possible Fix For Carbon Issue On 2nd Gen S And JCW'.
    Post #10. I'm really not trying to start a fight but, over time, your opinion has changed somewhat concerning OCC. That's a good thing and every one here values your opinion. As far as the rest goes...........laughter is good for the heart.:Thumbsup:(I just went and checked my meds and I did forget to take my 'Aricept' and Viagra' this morning so that's why I can't even remember who in the **** I am today.):devil::crazy::eek6::lol:

    Jason

    Jason
     
  9. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,731
    7,688
    113
    Ex-Owner (Retired) of a custom metal fab company.
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,960 / 1 / -0
    ^^^ You make no sense... But I still consider you a funny guy....:D
     
  10. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Sep 30, 2011
    5,083
    1,762
    113
    Male
    Sales and Marketing manager
    Hilliard, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,763 / 0 / -0
    Okay so Volvo and maybe BMW are already doing what I thought of. I am surprised that with more new DI designs coming out, and this is a problem that effects all of them, that the engineers haven't integrated this into the design.

    Chuck, do you think a good oil air separator like they use on a compressor would do the job? I'm not adding it on just thinking out loud.
     
  11. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Sep 29, 2009
    12,731
    7,688
    113
    Ex-Owner (Retired) of a custom metal fab company.
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +7,960 / 1 / -0
    I would say probably not or they wouldn't be as effective... They are designed to handle the air pressure and volume generated by an air compressor.

    I don't have a sense that the oil vapor exiting the valve cover has a lot of pressure or volume....

    Here is the BMW M5 oil separator (#1 & #2, one for each bank). The design relies on centrifugal flow to separate the oil from the air and then letting the oil flow back to the crankcase...

    [​IMG]
    40539.jpg

    This one is used on the 530 and the cut away shows it uses centrifugal action to separate the liquid from the air... The small hose connector returns the oil to the crank case...
    DSC00976.jpg CCV-OilSeperator3.jpg
     
  12. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

    Jun 12, 2009
    1,315
    154
    63
    Civil Engineer
    Durham, NC
    Ratings:
    +155 / 0 / -0
    That rubber diaphragm also plays a part. I believe it has something to do with regulating the pressures between the crankcase and oil sump. This is the difference between the PCV and an OCC that allows the PCV to drain to the sump.
     
  13. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

    Mar 30, 2009
    25,144
    10,052
    113
    Writer
    Short North
    Ratings:
    +10,069 / 0 / -0
    #13 Nathan, Jan 22, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
    The R53 doesn't have the same Carbon Build Up issues as the later models enjoy. Not having direct injection the fuel does wash over the valves keeping them relatively clean. Use of a quality detergent fuel such as Shell, BP, Mobil and other tier 1 level fuels will help to keep the valves clean. R53's do not need a catch can as much as the newer N-14 and possibly N-18 engines do.

    R53's do well with the occasional Italian Tune Up.
     
  14. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Sep 30, 2011
    5,083
    1,762
    113
    Male
    Sales and Marketing manager
    Hilliard, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,763 / 0 / -0
    I understand Nathan. I wasn't planning on it. Just something I thought about.
     

Share This Page