Exclusive: BMW Says “NO†To E15 Gas Blend

Discussion in 'MINI News and Articles' started by Nathan, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    #1 Nathan, Oct 22, 2010
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    The use of ethanol in gasoline has been a hot topic of debate in “Green” circles for years and it once again will be at the forefront of the mainstream media. The enthusiast’s arch nemesis, the agency that is reportedly in charge of protecting the environment and the notorious effects of global warming, the EPA, last week approved E15 for use in 2007 and newer passenger vehicles.

    While we are all for being Green (we love Clean Diesel and Efficient Dynamics), and saving natural resources we believe there is something inherently wrong with using a food-stock to produce fuel. The main bio source for creating ethanol in the US is currently corn- the same corn that feeds the livestock and we eat at our tables. We are not going to explain how the supply used to make ethanol will impact the prices of food or how the net energy to produce the fuel is less than what it yields (you can research that elsewhere and form your own opinions).

    What concerns us is how this will impact our cars, our warranties and of course for all those with direct injection; the high pressure fuel pump.

    It really is quite simple, an unnamed source at BMWNA has told us that the maximum allowed for use in a BMW is 10% (E10 the current blend), and that is that. After internal testing, BMW is not condoning the use of E15 at this time on any new or old BMW.

    This is not surprising to us as many auto manufacturers and even gas station owners were against the move to E15. There is more than saving the planet behind this decision, as there usually is in Washington. While this move is said to have the new fuel at a station near you by late spring we doubt it will be less than a year from now. The current UL listed fuel pumps at over 95% of fueling stations are only approved to safely handle up to 15% ethanol leaving no room for error in the mixing process, which could be hazardous. There are currently two pumps on the market that have been approved for a 25% blend and cost in excess of $20,000 each, so station owners are not going to be in a rush to upgrade and when they are there may not be enough supply to meet the demand.

    The EPA is said to rule on older cars by December at which time we will have more info on the availability of the fuel, how it will be dispensed and what happens if you accidentally put the wrong blend in your BMW.

    From BimmerFile.com.
     
  2. ronnie948

    ronnie948 New Member

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    You sure are right on this subject.

    Does anyone really understand why the cost of food has gone up so much. I don't think so. It is like Nathan says. The crops that feed America are going to the oil company's to be used for fuel that destroys cars. If you can't afford a new E-15 car it is just too bad. (Governments position) They now own a car company.

    Electric Cars ??? Where does the recharge power come from?? Oh! You bought one and now can't afford to run your Air Condition or cook at home. Nothing is ever said about the costly toxic to landfill batteries that will have to be replaced in all of those cars someday.

    Most of the cars made would get at least 15% better MPG if they did not have to run on moonshine.

    I was getting around 29mpg on my Corvette when using pure unleaded gas but when I was forced to use E-10 my mileage went to 22mpg. Everyone I talked to no matter what car they drove agreed that they got less mpg using the corn flavored moonshine crap that some crooked politician is getting rich off of.

    I better stop now before I really get mad :devil::mad5::mad2::incazzato::arf:
     
  3. Rae

    Rae Club Coordinator

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    The other thing about electrics is that they actually produce MORE pollution. Most power plants are coal fired, very dirty. The batteries are highly toxic, and the key components for making them are dragged all over the world (literally) before they become batteries.
    As far as corn goes, I agree. Don't get me started on subsidies AAARRRGGHHH!
     
  4. charitable cooper

    charitable cooper New Member

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    I'll have my corn .....on the cob thank you ..
     
  5. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    E-15 gasoline won't be sold for at least a year, watchdog says

    Gasoline with up to 15 percent ethanol probably won't be sold at the pump for at least another year because of health, safety, cost and environmental concerns, a government watchdog said.

    Nozzles and other equipment that dispense the fuel may leak, posing safety and performance problems, said the Government Accountability Office, Congress's investigative arm.

    Underground storage tanks used by fuel stations also may leak when holding the so-called E-15, GAO report said. The findings are based on federally sponsored research into potential E-15 use at fuel stations.

    The report makes clear that the EPA's recent decisions to allow the sale of E-15 rather than just E-10, or gasoline with up to 10 percent ethanol, does not mean that the higher ethanol blend will be offered right away.

    The EPA determined the higher ethanol blend is safe for use in vehicles dating to the 2001 model year.

    Some fuel stations may have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to upgrade equipment that stores and dispenses E-15, the report said.

    "We identified several challenges to selling intermediate ethanol blends at the retail level," it said.

    Fuel-testing requirements to meet health and safety regulations may take a year or more to complete, the July 8 report said.

    The EPA, in granting a request last fall from ethanol producers to increase ethanol concentrations, did not say when it expected fuel manufacturers to apply for E-15 use.

    No manufacturer or importer has completed a registration application for E-15, an EPA spokeswoman said today.

    Starting last fall, the EPA allowed higher ethanol blends in an attempt to help reduce the United States' dependence on foreign oil and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

    "There will always be uncertainty concerning the compatibility of legacy equipment with these fuel blends," EPA Assistant Administrator Mathy Stanislaus said in a May letter to GAO.

    She added: "EPA will continue to work with other federal agencies, industry and other stakeholders to assist tank owners to safely transition to new fuels. We anticipate that additional, targeted research may be necessary to facilitate that transition."

    Automakers unsuccessfully urged EPA to wait until more research was completed on how the higher ethanol blend might affect engines and fuel systems.

    "It is not in the longer-term interest of the government, vehicle manufacturers, fuel distributors or the ethanol industry itself to find out after the fact that there are equipment or performance problems," said Gloria Bergquist, a spokeswoman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, whose members include Toyota and the Detroit 3.

    In December, U.S. carmakers asked a federal appeals court to require the EPA to reconsider its decision allowing E-15 in cars made since 2007.

    Source - Automotive News
     
  6. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Government..... Run by people that don't need to be qualified to do a good job....:frown2:
     
  7. Justa Jim

    Justa Jim Well-Known Member
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    So, how does the EPA decide it is safe for 2001 forward if the auto maker says is is not?

    Now they will end up helping the gas stations buy the new pumps and put in new holding tanks, thus increasing the expenditure of federal funds we don't have to spend. :mad2:

    Jim
     
  8. jeffster06

    jeffster06 Active Member

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    All this E15 stuff makes me nervous. So some stiff in an office is gonna sign off saying all cars 01 and up will run perfectly fine on this tree hugging hippie fuel and not give a s**t what happens otherwise??? :mad2:

    Really curious to know what BMW says about this when the pumps start rolling out....
     
  9. dannyhavok

    dannyhavok New Member

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    Another point on electric/hybrid cars, the mining necessary to get the metals used in these enormous toxic batteries is very damaging in itself, done largely in China with lax environmental regulations.

    I exclusively fill my R50 with Chevron 94, because it's the only gas in town (maybe Canada.) without any Ethanol. I hope that Canada will remain E15 free, we don't have the Farm Bill fueling corn operations, so maybe we'll be safe for awhile. Fingers crossed.
     
  10. Rixter

    Rixter Well-Known Member

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    #10 Rixter, Jul 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
    What surprises me a bit is that BMW is the only manufacturer crying fowl (?) Where's some leadership from Mercedes, Porsche, VW, and even the NA manufacturers?! I think we can all do our part to support the stations that are offering 'pure-gas' (aka ethanol-free) when we fill up. If gas stations don't see any demand for pure gas it (where it's not legislated away by law) they won't bother caring it in the long run because they're figure nobody cares what goes in their car.
     
  11. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    QuikTrip, Tulsa, Oklahoma’s largest gas retailer, recently announced that E15 won't be sold at its pumps anytime soon because it hasn’t been proven safe for all cars.

    According to Consumer Reports, nine automakers thus far have made it clear that they won't honor warranties of older vehicles found to be running E15 through their systems. Toyota, General Motors and Chrysler are all among those manufacturers.
     
  12. Rixter

    Rixter Well-Known Member

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    I can understand that for older vehicles, but I'm quite surprised they're all silent about E1x and the impact on even newer engines. Seems like saying anthing against ethanol is politically incorrect.
     
  13. OldBlue

    OldBlue New Member

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    Instead of posting the whole article, see the link below. Good article about how the Gas & Oil Journal sees this subject. I did love this part of the article though;

    "General Motors, Ford, and 10 other automakers, expressed reservations about allowing ethanol concentrations to rise above their current 10% limit. “Americans need a fuel that will give them more miles out of a gallon of [gasoline]—not one that will prematurely send their vehicles to the junkyard,” Sensenbrunner said on July 5."

    Check out THIS link.
     
  14. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    I like the part about the National Chicken Council entering the fray against E15.....:D
     

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