I've been think about this for some time. Is it time for a National MINI Club in the US? A MINI CCA if you will... The BMW CCA accepts us MINI owners as member, and it feel like they do so kicking and screaming at the national level. Locally, I can only comment about a the Lone Star Region in TX. Here, we MINI owners are accepted with open arms. We help flesh out Auto X events and HPDE's, but when it comes to social events we tend to stick to MetroplexMINI and not mingle so much with the BMW folks. I bring this up the National Club idea again, I've written before in magazine from "that other site". It went no place, but then again it was a magazine column and not a forum post. With a forum post we can discuss the pros and cons and maybe even get a seed to germinate. Those of you on the MC2 mail list have seen the spam from Barry, he's been working this national Club idea for a while. The MC2 forums have been abuzz about it as well (not really, there have been 11 total posts on that forum since Nov). Between the US and Canada there are at least 90 MINI Clubs. That's based on the data I have I have from Clubs that submitted a listing to the magazine. Why not try to bring them all under one national organization. Your thoughts?
To what benefit? Why and what for? If local clubs fill the need why then have a mothership hovering about looking for funding and sticking her nose where it need not be stuck? In general more organization results in less creativity, spontaneity and an increase in rules and regulation. MINI prides itself on youification not usification and a big brother organization seems counter to that philosophy. Sure it may fit the BMW crowd but not the MINI bunch. That's just my opinion.
To what benefit you ask.... I'm not sure, I'm tossing this out as something to discuss. There are rumblings in other places about the same subject so I thought I would mention it here as well.
All I can compare that too is the SCCA. The local regions have a good thing going, however (Especially obvious in my 13+ years as Solo II Chairman) SCCA National uses the local regions as cash cows. The money they get from sanctioning fees from an autocross are ridiculous. We could have bought outside insurance cheaper, but national wouldn't let us. So personally, unless it's funded solely by MINI USA, I'd say no. I have enough people lining up for my money just to allow me to do things I like with the car my money bought. (Dang, do I sounds bitter or what? I didn't mean to...)
I think a decision as to weather it is a sanctioning body or a national club make a big difference. There are already so many different sanctioning bodies that #1 it wouldn't be needed. SCCA is a sanctioning body. As a national club ... power is is numbers. My Dad (as some may know) is PCA (Porsche Club of America) member #15 he was in the first group of 18 membere in PCA first Chapter. later went on to stat 6 more and being the president of #2 through ^ in USA and Australia and South Africa. PCA is now the world largest single marque automobile club. Back then the biggest reasion was to share information ... with the internet I have many friends across USA and the world who I have never met. It took many years for PCA to be recgonised by PORSCHE and maybe a good thing that the foundation was not a Mfg club. PCA started a section in monthly newslettere called "Up fixin Der Porsche" this was the best way to share knowledge. and eventually that info was used by the factory. I am ... as many here certinally are. members of MANY clubs. most to be able to race ... most of those exist for insurance reasions. SCCA, PCA, 356 registery, RAC (Royal Auyomible Club) Norcal Minis, AMA (American Motorcyclist Assn) , Dist 36 (local AMA region), PITS (Pacific International Trials Society...(I ride Motorcycle Observed Trials), TBSA (Trail Bike Sportsman Assn). Vincent Owners Club, BSA Owners Club, AFM, SCORE. Valley Climbers, Kid Crawlers, and more I am sure LOL It was a multi year project to do some of my restorations. now in a matter of hours I could join a forum and source just about all I need for any project. A MINI / Mini club would be cool, but in todays instant comunication, perhaps less necessary. The different forums each have a different "feel" (Thats why I am here) and we are often members of more than one. so information flows.
Great points, guys. I agree that the first step would be to answer the question "What would we achieve through a national club that we don't have now?" Given that there seem to be plenty of avenues for HPDE and Autocross already, it doesn't seem we need a national organization for that purpose. The existing successful national and regional events (MOTD, AMVIV, Helenblitz, many others) demonstrate that the current club structure, with loose federations of local clubs working on larger events, seems to work well with minimal bureaucracy, politics and overhead costs, as long as a few folks step up to coordinate and promote. The only thing that immediately comes to mind that we don't have today, that we *might* have with a national or international organization, is leverage earn more input into MINIUSA and MINI worldwide events, warranty/support issues, etc. And that's far from certain...
I agree that at the national level, there'd be little for a MINI club to do. We already have quite a few national events that operate through individuals and different local clubs working together to pull them off and I think it works out great. The only thing that a national club might be able to provide is a one stop resource for information and that seems to be what Nate's designed this site to be. So maybe there's already an answer to this, through here you get national (and international) information and will have access to local clubs as well. I've seen the MC2 posts, and the idea is well meaning, but not really necessary. I really think the main reason the people at MC2 want a national club is so they can be the official publication of the club to curb declining or stagnant readership. That's all well and good from a business point of view I suppose but somewhat like putting the cart before the horse.
I've seen that post and I've received the emails he sends out marketing MC2, mentioning GoMotoring and touching on a national club. I only bring it up as a topic of discussion. Personally I don't see the need. I thought I did at one time. However more discussion coupled with direct interaction with both a major event and local club stuff have changed my outlook. I do think the BMW CCA could serve MINI owners better. Possibly with the creation of a MINI Special Interest Group much like they have for the M3 and other niches within the BMW Community. Am ombudsman on the MINI side would help in dealer/MINI - consumer relations. BMW CCA has all this in place for the BMW side, how hard would it be to ramp some of the same features for MINI? I hear some of you in the background...BMW CCA is $40 year. Yep, add that on top of the dues some of us pay for local MINI Clubs and it starts to be a real number. Then you are in two clubs, your local MINI and the BMW groups. I don't have the answers. I don't pretend to know how to solve this quandary if there is indeed one. Like I said, I'm just tossing these things out for discussion. I also think that clubs need not be so autonomous. Lots of sites have listings of all the clubs they can find and/or are submitted, including M/A where a listing is a voluntary submission. I'm of the thought that club leaders need their own space to communicate and share ideas of how to build membership, how to deal with problems as they arise and all the other things each club is finding on their own. To that end I've created a space on M/A where Club Officers can share these things. With everything it takes to get one of these running I've not promoted that end of M/A as of yet. It's on the list. Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.
I think all of these opinions are great! My input...Is there a way for there to be reps from each local club to have some kind of annual meeting or just to all be connected, so that they can be the "voice" of all their members to MINI, organize the national events that are already strong (MOTD, MITM, AMVIV, etc.) and possibly add more? Plus gather any ideas from each other on how to make their own local clubs stronger? IMHO, I think we should consider the possibility of losing the uniqueness of each club if we go too "corporate". I am not closed to the idea at ALL, but would want to make sure that the local groups would still have their own governing bodies and remain autonomous among themselves. If this wouldn't affect the local clubs, other than adding to it in a positive way, I'd be completely on board with that! All that being said...Metroplex Mini is the first car club I've EVER been in, so those of you that have been in the national clubs would be more qualified to give the advice...pros and cons! I personally would NOT join a BMW sub group since that sounds as though we would be considered a "sub car" and that's just NOT right! MINIs are in a class of their own for a variety of reasons (I have drooled for one for 20 years before they were even in the states!) They are fun cars driven by a diversity of fun people! We race them, rally them, motor them, mod them, photograph them, just plain ol drive them, love them, kiss them...oh wait that's weird... I don't think that with so much diversity, we should be anything other than a MINI club and a MINI club only! OK...so that's my opinion...Nathan, thanks for the discussion! It will be fun to watch all the debate!opcorn:
Good discussion! From my standpoint, I am not sure just how the MINI community at large would benefit from a National organization. The local MINI groups seem to be doing just fine, matching their activities to the local interest (which, of course, changes over time as members drift in and out). I could envision national organization forcing unwanted activities and cost on local groups whose activity wants differ greatly from the "National desire." Just as easily, I can envision where a national organization could offer worthwhile discounts, insurance benefits, credit card offers. The only drawback would be when the "national club" might receive tributes from the companies that members patronize -- that money seldom trickles down to the local group and interests, however. Of course, if the national MINI club produced a magazine of the quality of BMW CCA's "Roundel" (with the exception of the insipid MINI columnist--:aureola, that might be worthwhile and certainly a magnitude above MC2. Yes, I am rambling, but that's the way my mind works trying to wrap around the concept of a central club.....pluses and minuses. For more than 4 decades we in the classic Mini community have survived quite well with local clubs, catering to local wants, and we have survived quite well and had some awesome "National events." In the distant past a few clubs attempted to organize all the clubs under something like a "Mini Owners Club of America", and we never were able nor willing to drive that highway. Let's hear more about this! Paul
The BMW CCA is also back by BMW. I belong to BMW CCA and you get some crazy perks, especially if you are a preferred member. Heck, one of the discounts is a discount for Sprint on your monthly bill like a government does with certain carriers. I don't see why not. I don't belong to a club that pays dues and I only pay for the CCA and it gets me a discount at every MINI dealership in the country.
I haven't decided yet whether I think a national group would have more positive or negative effect ..... just throwing another thought out there under the "many heads are (sometimes) better than one" banner. I'm only guessing, but I figure most owners (maybe even a vast majority) don't belong to a single MINI or Mini club and couldn't care less what affect a national group might have on local/regionals. I suppose most of them won't join any sort of a club, but I wouldn't be surprised if some percentage of that very large group WOULD prefer, and join, a national group. Question is, how big would that group be? And since that segment wouldn't take anything away from local/regionals, wouldn't it just add to the overall organized population? Just thinking.....
An excellent idea. Nathan, is there a way to perhaps forum this? A "President's Lounge", perhaps? That way I and other Club Officers can hang out with the other Club leadership and talk about Leadershippy things, while sipping mimosas and autocrossing on the East Lawn... an O-Club.... But seriously, in talking with friends over at BMWCCA, they do have some "mothership" problems, as well as financial challenges to overcome with BMWCCA that we as Mini don't have. AND... they have that issue with a far more popular car (read: they sell more BMWs than Minis). Insurance is a wash and is comparable. Magazine? Heck, we've got the forums, and the occasional catalogue from Moss or MiniMania to keep us satisfied. So... I don't know that we need a National Club unless there's something in it for us Members. ...and that's the rub: Most folks expect the Club to do something FOR them - not realizing that we the Clubs ARE "them", it's just that we volunteer a little time & resources to make things happen. Will folks volunteer more time or pay more money for a national Club to do things FOR them? I'm thinking that things won't change. And no, there's not much in it for corporate Mini to throw a load of cash their way. Mini is too busy providing cash for mothership BMW. A great idea, though, is better coordination among the regional Clubs. Maybe having some e-forum to allow better Club communication would assist, and PittStopMINI would love to participate. Thoughts?
umm...there is just that already. All Club Coordinators have access to the Club Coordinators forum area under the MINI Clubs - Country and Region section. Sorry, we ran out of champagne and I just drank the last of the fresh squeezed OJ, so no mimosas. There is no budget to replace the East Lawn with a tire friendly yet grippy asphalt. I do have a listing of a lot of clubs from my days as a magazine editor from "that other site", I'll contact all of them and invite them. I like your name for the area better and will change it, that may make it more visible.
Ummm, chalk that up to me not looking hard enough! Is that only open to the person "founding" the Club on MA, or can it be opened up?
It's open to those listed as Club Coordinators on the form. If others need access just send me a PM and I'll add them. They do need to be registered in order to be added.
I asked this question on "the other site" some time ago. No response from the "powers" over thereut:. Lets figure out how to do it here Mark
There is a forum here for the club officers. I saw the St Louis Club request in my queue...will get to it later this evening. I need some away from PC time...