I've done two sets of these now, on two different cars and two Saturdays. The first one was an '03 Cooper S with over 150K on it, those bushings were completely knackered! The center rubber was competely torn. The second car was another '03 Cooper S, but this one only had about 45K on it. The owner complained tho that the car drove like crap, had no real directional stability and in general was loose as a goose in the front end. This is far from an easy job, the first guy had only bought the bushings so once we got the holders out we had to press the metal sleeves out before we could press the new bushings in, this required a trip to my work where I had a 20 ton press. They came out easily enough and the new ones went right back in, then it was just a matter of re-installing everything that we'd removed earlier. The second car the owner had bought the bushings already pressed into the holders, so it was more a matter of simply unbolting and reinstalling. One side the bushing looked intact, but seemed really really soft, the other side was completely torn! This is not what you'd call an easy job, there are a lot of parts you have to remove, including loosening the subframe and pulling it away from the body so that you can even reach the bolts that hold the bushing housings in place. However, based on the condition of both these cars and the large difference in miles, it looks like time is just as hard on these as mileage. So, I'd suggest if you have an '02 -'04 car take a good hard look at these on your car too.
Hopefully you are going back with Powerflex bushings I help out at a vendor here on MA shop. We do a bunch of bushings also. But we pretty much always completley drop out the subframe as we usually talk the customer into new ball joint's also.....think about it, if the bushings are toast more than likely they are going bad also. We can drop a subframe pretty quick now.
:cornut: Just a question. Not wanting controversy but quiet opinions. I've heard arguments on both sides as to polyurethane vs rubber OEM(LCA) bushings. The general opinion seems to be that polyurethane is too stiff for road but essential for track and OEM rubber better(more give) for road but not stiff/strong enough for track. What do you think?opcorn: Jason
We have had not one complaint about the Powerflex bushings, even from people with just regular Minis....if you know what I mean :lol: Now some people wanted the Alta PSRS....now that's a different story. When I went to the Powerflex...I did the control arms, sway bar, steering rack and driver side tranny mount, plus I changed all the ball joints including the tie rods....it transformed my car :cornut: I also had it aligned and camber adjusted.
:cornut: Thank You. I guess what I'm asking(if this is an inappropriate question on this here site, tell me and I'll withdraw the question)is have you or others ever been able to do a before and after spirited 'country lane' drive, same or similar cars, OEM rubber and then polyurethane? Also address the feel of the car/road on straight aways with bumps and low spots with the 2 different bushings. Just curious. Jason
I went poly and noticed an immediate improvement, provided by Mach V Motorsports, and installed by Passport MINI of Alexandria. It may be the placebo effect, I dunno, but couple with the new non run-flats Conti Extreme's, strut tower brace and and sway bar, but the front is tighter than some analogies I wont get into, but I love the new bushings.
#1 for Powerflex bushings!! Difference in hard braking is worth the change if nothing else, but better off the turn too and very acceptable ride on the road...
The current R53 offerings of polyurethane bushings do not allow for appropriate lower control arm movement whether on street or track. If you must use polyurethane, at least get Mini Madness bushings, which are softer than Powerflex and Ireland Engineering versions. Healthy stock lower control arm bushings are good enough for non-competition track use. Polyurethane bushings anywhere on the car are absolutely non-essential for non-dedicated track use.
The bushing question is about as old as the chicken-and-egg question. Here's what little I know: 1. Generally, poly bushings offer more motion control but also pass more NVH into the cabin, so they are not as comfortable. Polyurethane bushings also tend to squeak or "grunch" when they get dry. My MINI is silent, for instance, but my Miata is a squeaky symphony. 2. Specifically, MINIs do well with poly bushings, but opinions vary widely over what bushings should be put where. There are different solutions that please different people, and there will never be a consensus. For the front control arm bushing, I've tried (in order of use) stock, worn-out stock, PSRS, and Powerflex. Of these, I really like the Powerflex, and that puts me at odds with k-huevo, who has been very consistent over the years in recommending the stock bushings. On my MINI with the Powerflex, the lower control arms swing freely through their arcs and seem to be well-controlled without binding. The NVH is a non-issue as well. But I will point out that I have not come full circle and tried a fresh set of stock front control arm bushings, so I do not have the benefit of a same-day comparison between Powerflex and stock rubber.
I made no recommendations, both owners supplied their own bushings and I believe they both used Powerflex, I just helped them with the install. Having a lift would make this job sooooo much easier, but even for those with nothing but jack stands and a floor jack it is do-able, it's just a little harder to get to some of the bolts, or get a pry bar in the right place. I can't speak for ride harshness or noise, but as both club members get more time and miles on their new bushings, I'll get an update. One car will be used on the track some this year, the other is strictly a "spirited" street driven car. The track car also got a set of Koni's and H-Sport springs, and some powerflex sway bar bushings so I doubt any increase NVH will be a factor for him. This was also the '03 car with only 45K on it. In general I tend to agree with Huevo's assessment and would go with stock bushings, but I can see a case for these, given their role in the directional control, especially under hard braking. We'll see as they get some time and miles under them. However, as short lived as they seem to be, and as difficult to replace, I think I'd opt for something that would last instead and try and live with the NVH. As to the ball joints, it probably would have been a good idea on the 150K mile car, just on general principals, but I could find no play in either car at the ball joints, the boots were intact and they all moved freely, so I think they were OK. Still, given that you already have it apart and they just bolt it, that's not a bad idea especially on a high mileage car. In this case, he had no more $$$ to spend right now, and like I said - they seemed fine.
I would never suggest using the OEM bushings as they simply don't last long enough to warrant the replacement costs. The little bit of additional NVH that they may impart is much cheaper than the regular replacement. And if you are really concerned about restricting the LCA movement, then get the PSRS. It imparts no additional restrictions and it allows full movement of the LCA. And after 4 yrs I am still loving my PSRS and still believe they are an equivalent option to the poly bushings.
:cornut: Thanks every one who listed answers/experiences.This is why I come to MA.No Flaming(other than on the political forum where I'm the guilty one) or Bickering, just LOTS of multifaceted information and experience. Y'all are great. I've noticed that when k-huevo(Keith) speaks, most of us tend to listen up, which is a very good idea considering his experience level and his 'Todays Job' thread. Jasonopcorn:
Well do what you will, but we have done I think 4 subframe drops this last month, used only the PF bushings with not one complaint. I agree with ScottinBend on this one, why replace with the stock? None of our customers feel any extra NVH with the PF. But guess we haven't talked to all the Mini owners in the world yet
I just use my car for driving and fun. I had PowerFlex LCA bushings installed last fall on my 2002 Cooper. I don't notice any additional NVH and of course it feels much better than the worn out stock bushings. I can't directly compare to brand new stock bushings, but I'm happy so far.
I personally have installed over 100 sets of powerflex control arm bushings, and had ZERO complaints, more positive responses than anything else. And I've sold more than I can count of the PF bushings for customers to install and had no complaints. Go powerflex you won't be sorry.
I'm having the fubar control arm bushings replaced tomorrow. I'll be Outmotoring with MINI Cooper Powerflex Control Arm Bushings. Does the R56 MINI still use those fine OEM pieces?
They look pretty much the same, but carry a different part number according to Real Oem.... But it looks like the Powerflex bushing kit is the same for either car.....
Just wondering if MINI made them more durable for the R56. Seems to me most any part on a car should last longer than these do.