1st Gen R53 Cooper S Morning Hard Starts & Now, 1-3k RPM Hesitation/Yoyo/Hiccup

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by minsanity, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    #1 minsanity, Sep 11, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
    Hey guys, Would appreciate much anyone's take on some issues. Stock 02 R53 w/ brand new battery, new stock belt(old looked thin but was working well),new stock plugs(old plugs looked/worked fine), always filled w/ V-Power & no codes on Scangauge.

    1. First symptom of failing to fire on 1st crank came months back, car just sat for about an hour. Since then, 1st morning starts are a struggle. 1st turns just crank & never catch; 2nds are brief cranks, engine catches, stumbles, dies. Successful cranks are between 3rd-6th tries. Once it fires, idle is always smooth. Succeeding starts of day are either instant or 2 tries. Ignored since performance wasn't affected.

    2. New symptom of 1-3krpm hesitation on about 50%up throttle was noticed after my previous fill-up. No misfires, no codes, just hiccups & absence of any power if I foot the pedal halfwy down. Feels like fuel starvation. Gradual acceleration to 3k up is the only option. 3k up, it's power-rich! Tried tying the bpv 2 days ago, no cure. untying it felt better.

    3. Tried a bottle of Shell's Blue Coral injector cleaner yesterday. Car warmed up same predictable way, same hesitation til I turned it off at operating temp. & instantly tried restarting to no avail. Car would catch briefly, stumble & die after many tries. Retried 3hrs later, car started on 2nd turn, perfect idle, hesitation still there. Took it for a spin to recharge the batt after all the cranking earlier. Might be coincidental to point injector cleaner as the cause. They seem to be more help than harm on our cars.

    Hmm, I'm suspecting fuel filter or FPR on the hard start. I'm not so sure about the hesitation. Related? Car never dies when running, though, so I'm hoping it's not the pump. Having read so many threads on Yoyo to be tune related, I can't seem to reconcile why it just suddenly acquired the symptom w/o any tune change.

    Sorry for the epic post, guys. Anyone had same experience? Hoping for any help. Thanks!
     
  2. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    How many miles?

    Something to try:
    When starting, turn key to run position for a few seconds, not immediately to "crank"
    You should hear the fuel pump cycle
    Switch key back off, then do this again.
    Then try to crank. Any difference?

    Things to suspect:
    Small vacuum line that connects bottom of fuel pressure regulator (under intercooler) with nipple on passenger end of intake manifold. These come off and cause many of the symptoms you're describing.
     
  3. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    I always listen & let pump cycle 1st in all my cars before cranking. Those are the said symptoms even if its primed. Pump seems to be working fine, otherwise, I presume I'd never get it to start. Rail might just be empty after sitting awhile. Car is in pristine shape @ 45k mi. Never tracked, just enjoyed, religiously maintained & cared for.
    Perhaps you might have a pic of that vac line, I'd really appreciate it, Paul. Intercooler should be off to access, right? Would that line cause both hard starts & yoyo?
    Tip my hat to ya for how you've maintained Blimey! Been following since way back.:Thumbsup:
    Thanks!
     
  4. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Pic of the Vacuum line

    It's number 13 below.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Thanks mucho, Nathan, you just beat me to checkin RealOEM.:Thumbsup: Anything I should watch out for in taking the intercooler off?
     
  6. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    #6 BlimeyCabrio, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
    Taking the IC off is easy. Remove the cover (torx), remove the two front brackets (8mm - you can remove one bolt and loosen the other on each bracket and swing them out of the way)- you don't need to completely remove the clamps - just loosen them, then push the IC to the left hard (as you're looking at it) and you can lift the right end up and it's off. Getting it back on and getting the boots aligned is trickier - hard to explain, just takes practice.

    Need long needle-nose pliers to manipulate that vacuum hose without removing the fuel rail and intake manifold.

    And, yes, having that hose off can result in much of the stuff you're talking about. I have a buddy that drove around like that for a while. Car ran fine at higher RPMs, ran like crap at startup and low RPMs.

    Not guaranteeing that's your problem, but it's consistent with the symptoms.
     
  7. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Would definitely be on that.:fingerscrossed: Keep you guys posted on hopefully positive results. Again, thanks!
     
  8. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    If it is indeed that hose being disconnected, you can use small zip ties as mini "hose clamps" to secure it at each end.
     
  9. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the great ideas, Paul. Sweaty palms just makes wrenching 10x harder, messier & longer. Just checking the bpv w/ zip tie took quite awhile. Haha. Will try tackling this later.
     
  10. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Update:
    FPR Vac line 13 was in place. Car has been sitting, so decided to check if there is any pressure at all in the rail by pressing the schrader valve. Nothing, no pressure left. Hmm, checked the pump by priming it...pressed the valve again... PRESSURE. Put the IC back on & restarted the car...5 attempts before it fired up. Same old. Good to have eliminated 1 suspect.
    So, FPR replacement next, guys? Couldn't find any how-tos w/ pics. Keith, I think had 1 way back, but pics have expired, if I recall right. Anyone? Thanks,guys!
     
  11. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    I'd check that hose for cracks first. Then swap FPR. You're mostly done already... Bleed pressure from fuel rail, disconnect fuel line. Remove clipped on vacuum lines, etc from fuel rail assy. Remove two 13mm bolts and fuel rail is now just held by the injectors. Pull and wiggle until the pull free. I'd have replacement injector o-rings on hand for a car that old. Swap FPR (part 7 in diagram above) and reinstall, replacing injector o-rings if needed.
     
  12. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    FPR vac line 13 looks good, even like new, pliable w/o visible cracks. I"ll look closer. Off to ordering FPR w/ its 2 o-rings & injector o-rings then. How can line be separated from FPR bell housing? Just pull it off?
    Appreciate the tips, Paul! :Thumbsup:
     
  13. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    There's a spring-loaded black sleeve that you push into the chrome end on the fuel line. Pull off the line while holding the sleeve in. Expect fuel to flow out and have a rag under there to catch it.
     
  14. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Absorbing everything! Really appreciate it! I"ll be attempting this when I get back from work-related trip. Updates then.:fingerscrossed:
     
  15. Sneedspeed

    Sneedspeed New Member

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    Change your fuel filter. This is a problem we see a lot at the shop. Fuel filter fixes it 99% of the time.
     
  16. BlimeyCabrio

    BlimeyCabrio Oscar Goldman of MINIs
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    Agree with Sneed's - even more likely than the FPR - and what I would have done after checking the FPR vacuum connection, before buying a FPR. Should have said that, but I took your question about FPR next as a statement and headed down that route...

    It is a little odd that you'd need a filter at that mileage, but it IS old.
     
  17. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I've filter on order,too, just in case. It's a messy job I probably cant avoid. 1 question, why do you think the rail wasn't pressurized @ all after sitting before pump primed it? Wouldn't that point more to FPR than filter? I'm planning to do these by elimination. The 2 OEM FPR o-rings might have to be ordered from Germany. Have you guys had any experience recycling back the said old o-ring?
    Thanks guys!
     
  18. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

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    Pressure will bleed back through the fuel line and through the injectors.

    The part on the fuel rail being discussed is a fuel pulse regulator. The fuel pressure regulator is located in the fuel tank. The fuel pressure regulator is on/off operation, hence the need for a pulse regulator on the rail. The basic test for fuel pulse regulator health or leak in the vacuum hose: attach a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail, re-mount the intercooler, turn the key two positions , pressure should read about 52 psi., start the car and idle, pressure should drop to about 42 psi., if there is no change in pressure from key on to start & idle, there is a problem with the diaphragm in the pules regulator or leak in the vacuum tube.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Classic symptoms of bad plug wires are poor starting with improved operation at higher rpm. The first step is to install new OEM plug wires.

    There could be a fuel quality issue, but without a random misfire code, it is lower in likelihood.
     
  19. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Learning from every post! I shall heed all your advices & do them 1 by 1. Wires, filter & FPR, if necessary. Hmm, would be great to have a fuel pressure gauge permanently attached on the dash. To Paul, Nathan, Sneed & Keith, inputs are valued. Thanks!
     
  20. minsanity

    minsanity Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, back w/ a lil update. New OEM plug wires in, smoothened idle further, not that it was rough. Hard start/pre3k hiccup symptoms still persist. Turned engine off upon hitting oprating temp on scangauage, it struggles to restart, as it has been doing lately even before wire change. Though engine sounds way smoother & more reactive.
    Vote for filter next? Hoping this gets finally resolved. Thanks!
     

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