R53 JCW brakes--had an almost catastrophic failure with them on the track. Off they went. Next up: Wilwood brakes, on 11.75 x .81 rotor. Not a bad kit, but I got to the point where I was overheating it. So on to the TSW BDM: a good kit, but I've given up trying to get parts. Long story short, Way has been great did everything he could, Outlaw, not so much, I'll never deal with them (Outlaw) again. I finally gave up. I wanted to stay on 15's, and Todd can make a kit that will work with the TSW hats on a 1.25 inch rotor...But it unclear when the calipers would be available. Big thanks for Todd for trying, and I give Wilwood credit for their honesty, something I can't say about Outlaw. So what I have now is a kit by Brakeman, 4 pots, 12.19 inch rotors, and....They still clear 15 Team dynamics. It's tight, but clears as well as the BDM kit did. Haven't had a chance to track it yet--car is going in for some major mods first--but just bedding in street pads, these brakes rock. They modulate great! Hoping that they'll hold up to the heat ok. But the calipers can be easily modded to go to wider rotors--I'll start with the 0.81 and see how it goes. I do have Way's air ducts, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. RMW has teamed up with brakeman; mine don't have the RMW logo, but that'll be available soon. They're also working on a rear kit, but I'm keeping that stock for the time being. First pic is rotor and caliper on hub. Second with 16 inch Rota Slipstreams, no spacer. Third with 15 inch Team Dynamic 1.1's, no spacer.
Wow, that's a tight fit. Nice setup. I like the ribbed calipers. I have TSW's old MDM kit, which is the same 12.2x0.81 rotor size, but supposedly doesn't fit 15's. Curious how the Brakeman kit manages to wedge itself in there. Do you have brake ducts? Also, what's your pad setup these days? Still on CT's?
The caliper is low profile, that's how they managed it. I believe Wilwood makes a caliper that does the same thing. Pretty cool to run a 12.2 on fifteens.... I have Way's brake ducts--might tinker with them a little to get more air to the hub. I'll see how this kit works as is first. I switched to Brakemans pads--#3 compound for the track. I may also try Performance Friction depending on how these work out. CT's are may favorite, but I'm still looking for something better--on XP12's, I go through them FAST, and I also get some pad fade after awhile. Still looking for the magic pad, heard lots of good things from the Viper crowd on Brakeman's pads, and lot's of good things about PF from the Porsche guys.
Those take a Stock Car pad? If so the Raybestos ST-43 has proven to be a great compound and is inexpensive to boot.
Magic........what else?:devil: I will re-work my GRAND AM style ducting to work with the calipers actually the pads are cheap for this caliper their pads for stock rear are normal priced
Some comments, but first let me preface this by admitting that I'm very hard on brakes. I got rid of my XP-12's 'cause I was going through them way to fast to justify the cost. I also didn't like the way they couldn't recover after overheating. It took a full cool down lap to get the pedal back. Nothing beats CT for a good release and light wear on the rotors, though. Very easy to trailbrake. ST-43's are cheap, they recover well, and they brake okay, but they don't release well and they're harsh on rotors. I had a lot of trouble trailbraking with ST-43's, although I only ran one set. I run PFC 01's now, and they're frickin amazing. $65/set (same as ST-43's), low wear, nice release, and I haven't overheated them yet, including a 99*F day at CMP in South Carolina, a track known to be hard on brakes and tires. Very harsh on rotors when cold. Four days at the Dragon on the 01's and my rotors were toast. Matching rear pads are tough to find. The Porsche guys like these pads 'cause they're cheaper than Pagids and stop just as well. Hawk is another viable alternative. They used to be known as an on/off pad with no release, but their new DTC series pads are getting good reviews at the track.
You can run 12" Coleman rotors on the TSW BDM kit. And maybe even the 12.19s. I've been increasing size as I go through rotors. You can verify via the wear pattern on the front brake pads. If you have a couple mil that overhang the rotor, you are golden. I had a real issue cracking front rotors and have been through several iterations of Wilwood and Coleman. So far, the Coleman race rotors I got from Todd have survived. I've settled on the Hawk DTC-70 after a recommendation from a track buddy. Awesome pad that has twice the life of an ST-43 or Poly B. Like you I was frustrated, but too stubborn to give up my 15s. Also, Dynalite seals fit the Outlaw 2000 caliper. And the Dynalite calipers are a direct sub for the Outlaws on a TSW BDM kit.
Alan, how's the release on the DTC-70's? I noticed an improvement on trail braking when I dropped the ST-43's, curious as to your thoughts without derailing this thread too much. I'm on my second set of Wilwood rotors. Does Coleman have a higher grade of rotor? The ones that came with the kit were a 24-vane variety, which ran hotter than the 36-vane Wilwood GT rotors I have on there now. Chris, which rotors are you using with the Brakeman kit?
I forgot about the ST-43. I really liked that pad, but ran it before I got air ducts, and it was pretty tough on the rotors. I was going to go back to that this year, with air ducts with the BDM, but then I had the parts issues. There are a variety of pad compounds available, but I'm not sure about the Raybestos. I know PF makes pads for Brakeman's stuff. But the Brakeman pads are supposed to be pretty good, so what the hell, I'll give them a shot. The Viper guys love them. They are pre-heated, which supposedly helps with stability, we'll see. This year I really want to keep an eye on rotor temps and get everything dialed in. I am admittedly very hard on the brakes, just something I have to work on to get a bit better at. Well, that, and everything else...:biggrin5: If I can ever get back on the track.... Car is hopefully going in this week for a fairly significant makeover.
Yeah, I would have done the dynalite caliper if they would have been in stock--I was all set and ready to go, Todd was a huge help, and I feel bad that it didn't work out. But they were going to be a few weeks, and after waiting for over a month on Outlaw (again, my only issue is with Outlaw, Way helped every way he could), I was just too tired of waiting. We'll see how it works on the track. One thing--these calipers are super stiff, should help with pad taper, which would be very nice. Not sure how going back to 0.81 will work out, but the increased diameter will offset some of the heating issues. I can still go wider if need be.
I'm using Brakeman's Procast rotors. Cosmetically, at least, they look very, very good. They do all that crazy thermal treating on them, not sure if it will make a difference. Only thing I'm concerned about is the 0.81 width, that'll be offset somewhat by the increased diameter, we'll see if it's enough. The calipers can be modified to run wider rotors if need be. The rotors aren't cheap, and when they're shot, I may try the Wilwood GT's via Todd/TCE. Probably the best barometer of that will be Ian, when he beats this setup on the track in the near future.
Agree. Looking forward to his impressions, too. I'm always reading the BMW websites about this and that race-tested part. Wish there was more of that in the MINI community, but we make do.
You need to be gentle on the pedal. I wish there was a way to turn down the power brake assist. You can threshold brake with just your big toe. And brake release is fine as long as you release slowly. (Shark Fin method) Once you are accustom to them they are just awesome. The Coleman race rotors have been the best, with almost double the life of the Wilwood GT rotor. I am hoping with the change to the DTC-70s I have the cracking issue fixed. Check with Todd for the specific Coleman rotor - it is a custom rotor for Alan Wolfe. And be prepared to pay.