New to here and going to send the Mini rallying!

Discussion in 'Starting Line - New Member Introductions' started by RallyMini370, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. RallyMini370

    RallyMini370 Well-Known Member

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    As with all the rally cars I've built getting to know the car is everything. So where better to start than a Mini forum!

    I have just bought a base 2004 Mini Cooper in MA with the veiw to build the car into a rally car and rally in Costa Rica where I work. I've been rallying a Suzuki GTI for 2 years but decided with the Mini in WRC it's time to change.

    Anyone who has built a rally Mini I would love to hear from. I do have info on the Mini sport Mini.

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  2. Johngo

    Johngo New Member
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    Welcome and good luck! Sounds like a fun project!
     
  3. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Welcome, thanks for joining Motoring Alliance.

    Please do share with your build and then exploits. Best of luck to you with a rally MINI!
     
  4. TSR53

    TSR53 New Member

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  5. TSR53

    TSR53 New Member

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    #5 TSR53, Mar 14, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  6. TSR53

    TSR53 New Member

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  7. RallyMini370

    RallyMini370 Well-Known Member

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    Cool , thanks for the replies and photos. So far I have a 3 cylinder engine as the #2 spark plug hole had been repaired and the repair also needed repairing which I did with a Big sert kit only to find an exhaust valve was burnt out. I work 2 weeks in MA and 3 weeks in Costa Rica so while down here I got a Cooper S head (more flow)off Ebay in England to ship back for when I arrive home. It seems I have the Rover/Peugeot box which is good and bad. Bad because they break easy but good because I can get some good low final drive ratios. Suspension I hope I can go the Subaru STI route as I did with my Suzuki Swift. For now I just need to get the car running and get the state test.....then the fun will begin!
     
  8. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Welcome to M/A....
    And yes, please, do post your exploits with lots of pictures.......:D
     
  9. Mr. Jim

    Mr. Jim Mudshark
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    Welcome to the madness!
     
  10. rum4

    rum4 Club Coordinator
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    welcome to m/a
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Very cool!
    Is that a modified / aftermarket head? If you mean a stock head.....sorry but I think you'll find that the Cooper and Cooper S cylinder heads are the same, right down to the identical part numbers. That includes all the related parts including the cam. If the head comes with valves that's a bit of a plus since the S valves are made of a different material, but they are the same size.

    In case you haven't found it yet, realoem.com is a good reference for part numbers, etc.

    Good luck with the build, I hope you'll keep us up to date.
     
  12. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    :cornut: Welcome! Welcome! Tee Hee, as you're already an addict, you'll fit right in around here as long as you post pics of your Rally Car in progress(if possible).:Thumbsup:

    Jason
     
  13. RallyMini370

    RallyMini370 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the Madness...I like that one! Regarding the Cooper and S head I have read in several places that the S has 30% more flow on the exhaust side due a reduction in the exhaust valve area by 5mm and have also read just bolting this head on to a stock Cooper improves the performance slightly.
     
  14. Jan

    Jan Well-Known Member
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    only difference between S and Cooper is the material in the exhaust valves. The S exh valves are inconel vs stainless steel of the Cooper
     
  15. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    Maybe that fellow that peddles heads will chime in & give us the lowdown. Are two heads really better than one.

    Good luck with your rally car. Will you be running pavement or gravel, both?
     
  16. RallyMini370

    RallyMini370 Well-Known Member

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    #16 RallyMini370, Mar 15, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
    This is what I read.

    S Cylinder Head and Valve Gear:
    The S cylinder head has been redesigned to increase power output. The main emphasis here was on adapting the passages to the higher gas flow. In particular, the maximum flow rate on the exhaust side has been increased by 30% by optimising the geometry of both the passages and the valves. It also involved reducing the valve stem diameter below the guide to 5 mm. The valve timing for the Cooper engine proved to be ideal for the supercharged unit as well. The spread is 111 degrees of crankshaft rotation on the inlet side and 109 degrees on the exhaust side.

    The geometry of the valve gear has to a large extent been taken over from the basic Cooper version. It is a compact valve timing system with an overhead camshaft, aluminium roller rockers and integral hydraulic valve lash adjusters. There are three rockers per cylinder: two for the inlet valves and a tandem rocker for actuating the exhaust valves. Since the exhaust valves for the supercharged engine have to open against a higher cylinder pressure, the forces in the valve gear increase accordingly. In addition, the engine's governed speed limit hasbeen raised to 6,950 rpm. The tandem rockers for the exhaust valves have therefore been modified to accommodate the higher loads with additional material and tighter tolerances between the roller shaft and the rocker.

    As a departure from the basic Cooper version, the exhaust valves are manufactured from Inconel to take account of the significantly higher temperatures involved with Supercharger.

    From here http://new.minimania.com/web/SCatagory/ENGINE/DisplayType/Technical%20Information/DisplayID/2206/ArticleV.cfm
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    That article was a big deal back in '02-3, lots of info we new MINI addicts craved. It was published only a month or two after I bought mine. As I remember it, MINI engine tuners and other experts found fairly early on that there are some inaccuracies, that bit about head and valve differences for example (other than the different exhaust valve composition). I'm not an expert or engine builder but Jan certainly is (see his post above).

    Jan, to make this perfectly clear, are you saying the heads and associated parts are identical in size, shape, etc, other than the valve material?

    Not trying to rain on your parade Chris, just trying to make sure we have this right. There are others who will read this thread and I want to make sure the info herein isn't misleading...and to make sure someone corrects what I wrote if I misremembered...
     
  18. RallyMini370

    RallyMini370 Well-Known Member

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    No worries Steve, this engine is all new to me so any advice is welcome. For me the S is still a better option than the basic Cooper due to the exhaust valves can take more heat which we get alot of on a rally in a hot country.
     
  19. Jan

    Jan Well-Known Member
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    #19 Jan, Mar 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2012
    the S head flows exactly like a cooper. It's just the exhaust valves that are different in material (inconel)

    The JCW head flows 20cfm more on the exhaust side than the other 2 heads due to the CNC porting at the factory.

    Are you going to run a normally aspirated engine or a force inducted engine? Because if you are using an S engine it is 8.3:1 compression vs 10.5:1 compression. The cranks and rods are also different between the 2 engines and the S also has oil squirters for the pistons. The Cooper block can be machined to have the squirters, the pads are there they just need to be drilled and tapped.
    If you have any other engine questions feel free to contact me as we have all kinds of data based on race engines. I will be happy to share with you.

    Jan
     
  20. RallyMini370

    RallyMini370 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Jan,

    Thanks for the info. I'm going to run a N/A engine to keep within the N2 rules. So I'm going to use the basic cooper short block and fit the S head because of the better valves. For now I just need the engine ruuning so I can sell my Rally Legacy to fund the build and use the Mini for work. Once I get the car to Costa Rica I plan to pull the engine and rebuild it. Does normal N/A stuff work with this engine, like HC pistons, Hi lift cam, chipped ECU? I did all this the Swift GTI and ended with a car that will out run the N2 1.6L's actually we did a road test against a road N/A Cooper with the Swift being much faster. haha I have a minimum weight of 940KG's which I plan to be close to to get the best out of the engine.
     

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