Nitto NT-01 Tire Pressures ?

Discussion in 'Track Days & HPDE's' started by Mini7, Apr 12, 2015.

  1. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    I bought a new set of track days tires for the season. 225-45-15 for my R53.

    I will be running at VIR at the end of the month and wanted some advice on good starting pressures front and rear. Any info on these tires would be appreciated.

    I am currently running -2 degrees camber and zero toe up front. Do these tires like more or less camber?

    Thanks
    Joe
     
  2. Alan

    Alan Active Member

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    Aim for 36-38 hot front and rear. Starting pressures are driver and setup dependent.

    Probably should have more camber - see how tires are wearing.
     
  3. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

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    Mine did best at 40psi cold all around, then let some air out down to 45psi hot... 2.3 degrees front, 1.5 rear, with no toe on either end... ;)
     
  4. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Dick, that would not work on the track. At all.

    Alan's rec's are a good place to start. A pyrometer is your best bet to dial in Camber, I go a bit more than -2.0, like -2.4, but two is good to start. Now that I can adjust castor I'll be at 2.0.

    I run a little lower on the rears; I shoot for 33-35 on the rears 35-38 on the fronts. Work with it to see what works best.
     
  5. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    Allan,

    Great those are basically the same hot temps I shot for with my Yoko AD048's.

    About 32/33psi cold up front and 34/35psi for the rears with cold morning ambients of 27F.

    Expecting the lows at VIR to be around 50-52F so will likely start a little lower.
    At what tire temp/pressures do the NT-01's start getting greasy? Normally get 10-11laps in a session.

    Will need to get a tire pyrometer. I agree with you regarding my camber. I would like -2.5 but have run out of adjustment on my plates.

    Thanks for advice guys.
    Joe
     
  6. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    Dick, I really like what you have done with the rat rod.

    Great Job!!

    On a different subject:Where did you locate your WB controller? I would appreciate some pics of your install and wiring. Trying to get my Vipec installed between VIR and MOTD. Very short window between the two events.


    Joe
     
  7. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    What camber plates do you have where you can adjust for Castor? I will need to lower my front ride height to gain some more camber.

    Do you run lower rear tire pressures to help the rear rotate?

    I appreciate your input
    Joe
     
  8. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

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    My ViPEC is linked into the Innovate WB hidden in the glove box. All you need is the signal wire for the sensor tapped into the OE pre cat O2 sensor wiring, and disable the pre cat sensor...
    On the MTX series WB, the signal wire is the yellow one. Then I just cut all the wires off of the pre cat (so the sensor is pretty much a plug) and the wire you tap it into is the Yellow wire on the harness side of the plug in connection next to the pre S/C map sensor.

    Other than that its just the two main plugs on top of the ECU, and you are ready for the tuner to do their job. ;)

    And thanks! :D
     
  9. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    #9 cct1, Apr 13, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
    I usually start lower than that cold, like mid to upper twenties depending on ambient temps. Rarely do I have to put more air in, but over the course of the day I usually have to take some out. The fronts will heat up more than the rears, and the left front will heat up slightly more than the right front, you have to keep an eye on it throughout the day.

    I start to have problems over 38 PSI; between 35-38 seems to work well for me on the fronts, with a lb or two less in the rears. Over 38 I really tend to start to slide. But, many people run that pressure and like it; people go anywhere from low to high 30's with them.

    Funny thing about tire pressures--I used to run mid to low 30's because it felt faster. Track data showed what I felt was fast and what truly is fast are two different things--I feel slower, but run quicker on the timer with a bit more pressure.

    I have AST's going in, they allow castor adjustment with their built in plates. With more caster, you can use a little less camber up front.

    I run the rears a little lower to get a little more grip. The rears don't do much, my tire wear is next to nothing on the rears. It's what the TSW guys used to do in their track car and swore by it, and with a 19mm sway bar, it just works. But I like the car neutral or with a smidge of understeer; that's easy to control. Other people run stiffer springs on the rear and equal tire pressures in the rears and swear buy it. You have to figure out what works best for you. There is a fine line between getting the car to rotate, and sliding the rear end out.
     
  10. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    You're welcome that's a lot of detail paint work.

    I have an innovate LC2.

    I want to avoid cutting into my harnesses if I can help it. I have an old O2 sensor to be able to create a harness. Cut the O2 sensor off and then solder the WB controller to the O2 harness.

    LC2 Yellow to O2 Canon Plug– Black (Signal): Yellow wire onengine harness
    LC2 Black to O2 Canon Plug– Grey (Ground): Black on engine harness
    LC2 Red O2 Canon Plug- White (pin 4- outer) (12v Power: not sure if this is switched): Red/white stripe on engine harness
    LC2 Brown isolate

    Is the above correct? (I’m hoping that it will be this straight forward) Will double check the engine side of the O2 connection and that I have the connector orientation correct.

    Joe
     
  11. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

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    Talk with Jan about the LC2, he knows a lot more than I do.

    Making a plug in harness from the OE sensor wiring is easy, and the best way to do it... Thats actually the route I ended up with, because the ECU side of the harness uses such an ungodly small gauge of wire, and there isn't much room to make a good splice. I would have to run out to the car to make sure, but I am like 60/40% sure the wire from the stock sensor you need is the black one.
     
  12. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    #12 Mini7, Apr 13, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
    I liked working with Jeff Bibbee. I bought my ASTs from TSW just before they closed. My AST camber plates don't have Castor adjustment. :mad2: I will be interested in seeing what clearance you have between your top sway bar mount and the hard brake line bracket on the front. Let me know how adding castor affects the clearance lock to lock.

    I have 450lb Swift springs all round. They work well on the track and the ASTs do a real good job controlling the spring on the road. I will be interested to see what adjustment you run on your shocks. I'm 6 clicks from hard up front. 7 clicks from hard at the back. As I build seat time, I will start making adjustments. What length front springs did you get?

    I am still learning how to drive. As I improve, my cold starting temps will likely drop as my speed increases and build heat into the tires faster. The first 3-laps in group D tend to be a little processional. I'm moving to group C next time out so I may have to adjust cold pressures a little more than I have.

    I would have thought that higher rear tire pressure would translate to higher tire temp and by default better grip. I'm looking for neutral to light progressive oversteer if I need to lift a little to tighten my line. I definitely do not want have grab an armful of lock because the rear has stepped out. VIR has some fast corners. I would like to leave the skid marks on the track and not in my drawers :biggrin5:

    Thanks for the advice
    Joe
     
  13. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    Dick, if you say that it's the black wire on the O2 harness then that matches what I have. The ECU side of the harness it would plug into the yellow wire.

    I have sent Jan an email.

    Thanks
    Joe
     
  14. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

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    Thats the one!
     
  15. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Jeff and Mike were a huge help getting my car set up, from ride height, camber, toe and tire pressures. Everything they told me was spot on.

    Higher tire pressures don't necessarily mean more grip, it's temperature dependent too, especially on the rears, which are just kind of along for the ride. It's hard to get a ton of grip back there anyway; higher pressures and relatively cold tire temps just don't work for me. I have no idea how Dick can keep his car on the road running cold tires with PSI in the 40's; maybe he's an ice driver in his spare time.

    You might be able to replace your camber plates with ones that dial in castor--I have JRZ's going on as we speak (I misspoke if I said AST's earlier). I had KWv2's before, I can't wait to drive with the JRZ's on.

    One other thing--I run staggered tires, 9 inch wide up front, 8 inch wide in rear. This makes a HUGE difference in grip. I run mainly Road America, which is also a high speed track.

    I trail brake 5,6 and 8, and that tucks the nose in nicely on the apexes; I really don't like the rear sliding too much. I'm more point and shoot than drift. Also, if you lift (gently) to correct your line, lift throttle oversteer can really bite you in the arse, the rears slightly lower seem to help with this.
     
  16. TheModFather

    TheModFather Well-Known Member

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    Different setup Chris... Made my own auto-X course in a private parking lot, and let her rip until everything was the way I wanted it...

    Speaking of that, I may have to do it again if we dont get the rain they are calling for this weekend. The RS3's arent really liking the way it sits right now, but its close. ;)
     
  17. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    If you tried that at Road America, you'd wind up like that Lamborghini driver in Florida...
    You'd be lucky to make it to the carousel, and if you did, you wouldn't make it to the end of the carousel...

    Seriously, that's way too high for Nitto's. We've got to get you out your self made parking lot autocross tracks and onto a real track. Be kind of cool to get that thing out there. Tech may be a byatch for you the first time through though; that would be worth seeing just for the entertainment value alone. But I can vouch for this: warmed up Nitto's in mid to upper 30's are an order of magnitude stickier than cold Nitto's in the 40's. My street tires are stickier than overrinflated cold Nitto's.
     
  18. Mini7

    Mini7 New Member

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    The TSW guys gave good practical advice when it came to suspension setup. One of the reasons why I didn’t drop my ride height after the AST install. I didn’t want to sacrifice suspension travel. However having said that, I will need to drop the front to gain another half degree negative camber. Not sure how much I will need to reduce the ride height to gain what I am looking for….?

    I agree that tire grip is dependent on the tire temp. My understanding is that you will build temps faster by starting at a higher pressure (everything else being equal – Thermodynamics 101). I will test your tire pressure set up at VIR and see how it works out. I don’t have a pyrometer so I will gauge based off the pressure gain and on track balance, along with Harry’s laptimer.

    What rim ET & spacer are you running in the front to clear the coilover? I’m guessing that the 9” width creates a larger footprint for the 225 NT-01 up front…? Have you softened the rear sway bar to gain/balance the rear end grip?

    JRZs are great shocks. My last instructor had a set in his 911 and the handling was awesome! I am really happy with my ASTs. Predictable and they ride the kerbs well without unsettling the chassis. I only do that in one spot to straigline the two corners leading up to the climbing esses at VIR.
     
  19. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    #19 cct1, Apr 14, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
    You are absolutely right on heating up being dependent on pressure, it's also dependent on ambient temps/road temps, and the track. I heat the tires up much quicker at Blackhawks, a short technical track with many tight turns and braking zones, as opposed to Road America, with it's long straights where things cool down. The best way to do it is to keep logs of ambient temps, the track, and tire pressures; I started doing that last year and it helps get things dialed in quicker. I'm just a hack, but these things really help getting things consistent, which is huge for us mere mortal drivers. For me, there is a arrange of 4 PSI or so where I'm consistent (below that I'm slower, but I can't necessarily tell that the PSI is low by feel, just by times and pressures. Above it, I can feel the tires getting slippery, I can usually tell when the PSI starts getting above 38 up front).

    RA has both relatively flat curbing and severely banked curbing. I love getting on the flat stuff, I stay off the banked curbing at all costs. People have lost oil pans, headers, etc. on that; no thank you. Just nudging it really unsettles the car.

    I run a solid 19mm Hsport solid rear sway bar on full stiff. It only has two settings; I used to run it soft but I've gotten used to it. Many people runner stiffer than that, but Jeff was of the philosophy that people tend to overdo it on sway bars. If I had it to do over again I'd go 22 hollow, equivalent to 19 solid but lighter. Not a big deal though.

    I run a 15 mm spacer up front, and 8mm in the rear. I really need to roll the rear fenders, the fronts are ok.

    The stagger really helps get the car around turns, I'm still growing into it. It's easy to cheat; if you are off the apex it's easy to turn a little tighter to get it, but it scrubs speed. When you hit it just right though, it's like hitting the perfect golf swing. There's very little drama, but you come out with excellent exit speeds. It's one thing I'm trying hard to get consistent at.

    This year I'll be starting all over--the JRZ's are new, and the car will be roughly 300WHP, maybe more, up from 250, with a bunch more torque. Should be interesting...Jan swears by getting as much castor as possible up front--if I can take a little camber out and have the same results on tire wear and turn in, the benefits of better acceleration and braking with the reduced camber will be worth it.

    You may be faster with different settings than me, that's what's fun about it, figuring it out. I've tried a number of different setups, I've had the car too low, which feels fast but isn't, I've had the rear too low in relation to the front, and that was the worst driving experience in my life...
     
  20. Detroit Tuned

    Detroit Tuned Well-Known Member
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    I start at 32 cold and check them after the first tracking to keep them at 40 hot. i run a 215/45/17 NT-01
     

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