i have an 04mcs with a tsw 19mm rsb, i love it! I am a lurker i read allot don't say much but i am pretty sure i have read all that i can. I'm getting up there in mileage and i think it is time for some upgrades. It is my DD and i live in the city. My main focus is turn in and not rattling my teeth out over pot holes and train tracks. Not much drop as well, if i could keep it stock height i would. i have decided on a few parts but would like some suggestions on others. I am pretty sure im am going koni yellow with tsw springs, i don't think i will ever utilize good coil-overs to their fullest. Thought the TSW kw V1 are tempting (what is the drop on these?) Defiantly poly control arm brushing and trailing arm brushing with adj rear control arms. x-brace and cabrio mounts (haven't checked if i can mount them) in the future. Has anyone made a decision on strut tower bars? Now here is were i am having trouble deciding. camber plates, fixed vs adj? Do they offer different feel, ect? i know the cost is there but if i am going to do it i would rather do it right. Rear upper mounts, i know that the stock are spongy but is there a viable alternative (something along the line of what tc kline offers for BMW)? Any input would be appreciated. -Jonathan
My suggestion is to call Way Motor Works. Way is at AMVIV right now, but if you call him next week he will have all sorts of info to overwhelm you with. For my daily driver, 04 MCS (92,000 miles), I'm having him install at AMVIV: TSW springs with JCW dampers (softer than Konis), H-Sport front and rear sway bars, H-Sport rear lower control arms and poly bushings in the front A arms - so it sounds like you're going down the same path I am. I'll have a much more informed opinion about that path in a couple days! If you want the stock ride height, Koni FSDs would be worth looking in to. As I understand it, they are for use with stock springs only. For camber plates, Way told me no fixed camber plates if you lower the car. Maybe FSDs with fixed camber plates is an option.
If you're gonna do it right, go with adjustable camber plates. They'll stiffen up the front end a bit, too, cause most adjustable plates don't have rubber bushings, while fixed usually do. Consider keeping the OEM shocks and mate them with the TSW springs. I've heard Konis are pretty stiff. RTABs don't make as much of a difference on MINIs as they do on BMWs, but they'll help. Sticky tires in 215/45/17 will make a difference, too.
My plan is this;WMW Suspension Package - Way Motor Works But it likely won't happen for a few months:frown5: Just got some Nitto Neo Gens in 205/50/15, that made a big change. Mark
OP said he didn't want to rattle his teeth on rough surfaces... the fixed camber plates are a better solution for that part IMHO. I run TSW springs, FSDs and ireland fixed plates. I know lots of folks who have the same setup and no issues. It's not a "track" setup. It's an fun street / canyon setup that can also be tracked. X-brace and cabrio braces are good stuff. If you want a strut bar that *really* works, get the OMP or GT Tuning one. If you want one that just looks good, get anything else. :lol:
The TSW KWs are such a great choice simply because they come from a company that is really supportive, Jeff takes the time to explain and sometimes for me he has to re-explain everything.
I generally agree with the Blimey setup. I run TSW V3 springs with stock shocks, drop is 3/4" in front with 7/8" in the rear. I also have the TSW adjustable camber plates and they definitely stiffened up the front, I can feel much smaller road imperfections now. The camber plates are a great step in the performance driving/handling direction, but also a step away from street driving comfort.
Thanks for all the input. i was leaning towards TSW's adjustable, and the opinions here have confined my inclinations. Well i need new struts so i think im going to stick with the koni yellow. I have heard good things about the fsd but i have also heard too many troubles with lowered cars to risk it. Ride isn't an issue as long as long as highway miles don't become uncomfortably rough and i don't have to fear loosing teeth in town. are there any opinions on rear mounts. Something like this would be perfect but options seem limited. Thanks All, Jonathan
TSW sells something like that: AST Upper Rear Shock Mounts (02+) MINI OEM Sounds like you come from an E36 background, where those are a much bigger issue.
Do camber plates (fixed or adj) for sure. I think they make a bigger improvement in handling than a larger rear sway bar. The increased negative camber with your 19mm rear sway bar will be a great combination. I use Hotchkis adjustable camber plates and did not feel increased harshness. I have the JCW suspension with 40 series tires. However, I usually suggest fixed camber plates to people that do not care about the adjustability and I am curious why WMW says not to use them with a lowered suspension. Adjustable plates have a few advantages such as a strong top plate to prevent strut tower mushrooming, solid top bearings that will not tear, and adjustability to make up for manufacturing difference in camber from side to side. A lower strut brace (such as the TSW x-brace or Mini Madness trapazoid style) does make a noticable improvement.
Sping Has Sprung On my 'suspension upgrade' list, just the 1st 3 items have made an incredible difference. 1st I installed a JCW front strut tower brace(felt almost no difference). Then I installed a rear strut tower brace(BIG difference). With me and on my car(08 MCS JCW{engine only} Sport Suspension R56 hatchback) both front and rear braces had to be installed to make a difference and they sure did.They tightened up everything.Next after reading Don Racine/Gary Anderson/Dr OBNOXS Richter articles, I realized that the biggest 'bang for the buck' was dropping ' unsprung weight ' which is mainly wheels/tires. My factory 17in wheels weighed 24lbs each and runflat tires out weigh nonrunflats in the 5-8 lbs range. So I got OZ Allegerettes @ 14lbs each and nonrunflat 215x45 R17s which dropped unsprung weight 18lbs/wheel or 72lbs total. With the Sport Suspension(23.5mm front bar,18mm rear bar,heavier springs and shocks in factory Sport Suspension),front AND rear strut braces,and lowered unsprung weight,my acceleration is quicker,breaking distance shorter,suspension tighter, and roll/lean in corners much less.I still need those Ireland Engineering fixed front camber plates though with some front + camber and an alignment such that Mini Margi will quit eating front tires. She runs/handles so well now that I'm only going to replace suspension parts as they wear out.I also got a spare tire in the bargain. One of the runflats on one of the factory wheels is in the boot and the rear strut tower brace holds it in place, no rolling around. :cornut: Jason
Ok, upon further investigation i have come up with some more questions/ issues. i do have lighter wheels, TD PR1 17x7 w/ potenza res760 in 215/45/17 i have decide on the Vorshlag / TSW adj plates. Has anyone run the AST rear mounts with koni yellows? (I like indestructible things that improved handling but i wonder what the NHV is like) What is the opinion on poly trailing arm brushings? (if i have everything apart i might as well upgrade) Does anyone know the pros/cons of this setup over say the BC coil overs with swift springs? -Jonathan
Koni Yellows? I do not see anyone responding to this who has the Koni Yellows-My experince with them was, they were "teeth rattlers". You said in town you wanted to avoid that, I only drove one car with them, but it was unpleasant for street driving.
If you decide on poly front control arm bushings, Madness' bushings are slightly softer than Powerflex's black/purples and better suited for street use. I do not care for poly bushings on either the rear trailing arm or rear upper strut mount. Werkin Mini also offers AST rear upper strut mounts, they would require custom fitting to use with Koni yellows, either send the Yellows to AST to match, or provide critical measurements. The mounts are available for many other struts, send a note to [email protected] for compatibility questions. The downside for street use is a slight increase in NVH. These are definitely an improvement over poly upper bushings that bind under side loads like the MINI applies. There are many advantages to adjustable camber plates and Vorshlag's are top notch, but for your (00zero) requirements IE fixed plates are a better fit. The only possible downside I can see with using fixed plates on an ultra lowered MINI is excessive front camber, but it would have to be extremely lowered for that to occur. Werkin Mini has a custom IE fixed plate with less additional camber for those who spend much of their drive time on the highway and/or would like to avoid modifying the inner wheel well to accommodate stock diameter springs; there is a lead time for this plate. On the R56, some adjustment is available using IE fixed plates via the slotted tower holes, about -1.8 degrees with the plates pushed toward the engine and -1.4 pulled outward. For track and auto-cross, Vorshlag plates are defiantly the hot set-up. Keep in mind for a change in camber there is a corresponding change in toe, so an alignment with each change is recommended. As for "feel", the performance difference doesn't become apparent until you're driving 8/10ths are harder, the comfort difference is felt over each expansion joint. Multi-adjustable coilovers like the BCs will allow some control over damping rates plus ride height independent of spring height, however my suggestion is to go straight for the best quality strut & spring combo you can afford; AST has exceptional options for the MINI. If budget constraints drive the decision and you want to maintain stock ride height, keep the stock springs, they're underrated. Koni yellows are a bit stiff for street only, and if performance is a consideration take FSDs off the list.
k-huevo, Thanks for the info on the AST rear mounts. It was helpful. Any of the AST stuff is out i just cant justify the money for a daily driver. That is why i was looking at struts and springs and cheap coil-overs (only because the cost is similar to the strut, spring, camber plate combo, i would most likely set and forget) As far a comfort i don't mind feeling the road i just don't want that exhausting rough vibration. I don't mind some additional feel for the sake of better handling. My want is minimal drop 1" or less is fine i am not pickey. So with TSW springs, vorshlag plates, maby AST plates, and koni yellows is the ride totally exhausting or just slightly more road feel and noise? BTW, there is far too many choices from far too many good parts. -Jonathan
For a daily driver like yours I would suggest staying with the OEM struts and get the TSW springs. The stock struts work fine and offer a much better ride than the yellows.
My setup exactly for my street and occasional track (i.e. 6X per year) car. A little lower than stock with a much better ride, yet not crazy expensive.