Are all sway bars created equally? Is a 19mm bar made by brand “X†equal to the same diameter bar made by brand “Y†?-ie is the spring rate the same on all bars of equal size regardless of manufacturer? Do some bars have more "range" from mild to wild? End link mounting method and number of mounting options are different from brand to brand – does this offset the bar diameter? ie- brand “A†set differently could be equal to brand “B larger diameter†if set in different position. Some charts say no - the mildest setting on a big bar is greater than the wildest setting on the small bar. Are they all shaped identically? Does it matter? Like a lot of new MINI owners I “modded†first and read later. Installed a bar and started in the mildest position and frankly it was mild - could not feel any difference from stock. Everything I have read says it should have been overkill and way too stiff even in the mild position, but that was not the case. I moved to a pretty wild setting as shown by the manufacturer and “whoo Nellie†sure glad I got rear view mirrors cause I just changed directions (Settled in on a mid position and it handles much more predictably)!
i mean i geuss when you do your research on different brands of sway bars, each sway bar has it's own stiffness rating percentage over the stock sway. and im not saying that every 19mm bar is exactly the same, im jus saying that each are made differently and not every bar is a twin or clone of the other. the best bet is to just try each one out and see which one works for you. ALTA has a chart on their website for both their sway bars (19 and 22?) and it tells you how much stiffer it is over stock. more brands should do this, but i base my calculations of those charts because i assume that every bar is almost exactly the same.
Usually it's pretty close....usually. The 3 holes can be positioned slightly different. That's why it's nice when they give out the swaybar rate in terms of lbs/in or even a % increase over stock. - Andrew
Where the holes are placed on a 19mm solid bar doesn't make a whole lot of difference - changing the moment arm on the bar has a linear relationship with the torsion, and the variability is limited by the length of the endlink. However, radius of the bar has a fourth-order effect on the torsion, so you really start to see an effect when you go to a 22mm or 25mm hollow bar. I don't think the type and flexibility of the steel (Ec) varies much from manufacturer to manufacturer, so the only significant variables would be thickness (diameter), hole locations (moment arm), and whether it's hollow or solid.
Thank you, Mr. Engineer. Whatever.... I can feel a difference depending on which hole I'm using - Wait - that doesn't sound right.
The rate increases specified by vendors are also not consistent between vendors because some reference the increase from a 16mm bar and some from a 17mm bar. A solid 19mm bar will be about 1.99 times stiffer than a 16mm bar. A solid 19mm bar will be about 1.56 times stiffer than a 17mm bar. Depending on the hole locations compared to the stock location the softest setting will be a lttle less than 1.56 and the stiffest will be a little over 1.56. For example Alta states the three holes for thier 19mm bar as 1.15, 1.40, and 1.77. A solid 20mm bar is about 1.92 times stiffer than a 17mm bar. A solid 22mm bar is about 2.81 times stiffer than a 17mm bar. A hollow 25.5 bar is about 3.46 times stiffer than a 17mm bar (approx = 23mm solid). The other difference of bars between vendors is the mounting bushing. Hotchkis (H-Sport) has a grease fitting and hole through the bushing to add grease. TSW has a teflon impegnated bushing to not need lubing. Alta has a regular engery suspension bushing that needs lube.
Don't overthink it too much. Basicly you need to choose if you want a 19mm or a 22mm. Then decide on a brand. I've litteraly installed every brand available and can tell you we like the Hsport the best. The main difference in the brands is the bushings used. The hsport have poly bushings that have a super nice grease chanel that holds the grease better than any other bar bushing, keeping it from squeaking, and if you need to regrease it has a zerk fitting to make it easy. Other bars require removing to regrease. Then there is the bar itself. Some bars are just a bent piece of steel with ends welded on it and powdercoated. Seen several brands that the powdercoat flakes off in 6months, then it will rust. Never had an hsport flake. Then you have weight. The hollow Hsport comp bar is the lightest at 5.5lbs all the rest are 12lbs or more. Lighter is faster. As for end links. You ONLY need them if your going to corner wieght the car. Otherwise it's extra cost and marketing to get you to buy a certain brand bar. I hope this helps
thanks for the great info! i've had this sway bar dilemma for the longest time and people have said many different pros/cons about several brands. but i think the hsport has found a nice place in my car and i can't wait to get mine and i had no idea the weight difference was so large between hsport and other brands. but how often would one have to lubricate the zerk fitted bushings?
The weight difference is only between solid 22mm and the Hsport comp bar. As for regreasing, I've only had to regrease 2 hsport bars in 5yrs. Other brands I've installed would be about 75% of them have had to be regreased.
Yep - I pump one shot of grease into my H-sport zerks about once a year - not because it needs it, but because it's so easy when i have the wheels off already. It has never made a single sound. Ever. Just works.
I ran the 19mm H-Sport and a 22mm RSpeed. I can't comment on the handling difference because everything else on the car was changed too (coilovers, tires, etc). The problem with a 22mm is that you need to massage the sheet metal to make it clear. The 19mm is the largest that fits without taking a BFH to the body.
what about those H&R bars? dont they have this urethane-teflon composite bushings that dont ever "need" to be greased up, ever?
TEFLON TAPE. I've said it before (maybe). No need to annually grease your poly bushings. That said, zerk fittings are nice. Some people like the 20mm rear Whiteline bar. - Andrew
Andrew, When wrapping the bar with teflon tape did you also use grease on the bushing or install the bushing dry (just with teflon tape)?
Thanks. That is what I was thinking of doing but wanted to confirm with someone that had done it already.
I got the sport suspension when I got my '08 MCS. It turns out the 'sport suspension' consists of a 18mm sway bar, that's basically the difference over stock, which I'm assuming is 16mm (?)
what the diff between the madness 22mm rear sway and the hsport 25.5 hollow rear sway? the madness bar has higher stiffness ratings by a few numbers, but the hsport is only competition recommended only. so what's up with that? and theyre like literally the same price, plus/minus 20 dollars. Madness MINI Cooper S 22mm Adjustable Rear Sway Bar Hotchkis Rear Sway Bar, Hot228X0R, MINI R53 Cooper S Hotchkis Rear Sway Bar i'm having a hard time deciding. the madness bar's higher stiffness ratings are making me lead more towards that rather than the hsport. but what keeps me thinking is that autoxcooper said the hsport is the best brand of bar, ever. im so confused.. because i trust the forums and the fact that a lot of people love the hsport bar i might just actaully get the 25.5 hollow, but i would still love this thread repliers' opinions on my dilemma. :confused5: