1st Gen R53 Cooper S URGENT HELP with crank pulley install

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by 00zero, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. 00zero

    00zero New Member

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    I planned on installing an ATI damper this past weekend.

    While removing the old pulley i had about a 1/8 a turn of elastic movement with both front rotors locked with screwdriver in the veins and the gearbox in 6th.

    I got angry an just bought an electric impact wrench and took the old pulley off.

    I then realized that i was going to have the same trouble installing the new pulley. I tried anyways, now i have the new pulley on maby a 1/5 the way and i can no longer apply enough torque to the bolt.

    It is on stands in a friends garage and i would like to get it out as soon as i can.

    Is there some other way i can keep the crank from moving? Am i doing something wrong.

    Can i get a Grade 8 M12 x 100mm hex bolt and use the impact wrench to install the pulley?

    Can i install the new crank bolt with an impact wrench if back it off and torque it near the end?

    I am just super frustrated right now, it seems every time i try to fix something it becomes a struggle. Everything seems easier when you read about it on the internet :lol:

    -Jonathan
     
  2. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    #2 agranger, Mar 26, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
    Did you read my how-to article? Did you heat the new pulley?

    http://www.motoringalliance.com/library/1st-generation-mini-cooper-how-to-3/replacing-the-crank-pulley-101/#axzz1qF2nwRNg

    I used the ATI-provided bolt for the install and then, when that hit bottom, I backed it out and used a new MINI crank pulley bolt (with factory loc-tite pre-applied), tightened to 85 ft-lb.

    Here's how I stopped my wheel from spinning during the re-install, which will stop the crank from turning with the transmission engaged as you are currently doing. I've got wheel studs, but you can probably reproduce the effect with your lug bolts.

    You know... if you only jacked up one wheel (Only the front right - I'd bet you have both front wheels jacked up and on jack stands right now), you would stop the tires/hub from spinning with the front left tire and the pulley wont spin... I'm not 100% sure of it, but it might be worth a shot.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    Duh! I'm not so bright... I just re-read my own article for the solution!

    Have someone get in the driver's seat and step on the brake. That will stop the hub from spinning and, with the transmission engaged as you have it, you won't have this problem (foot off the clutch, transmission in gear)!

    Do NOT use the impact wrench for the install. You will need to torque the bolt to the correct spec and if you over tighten and break the bolt (or monkey up the threads) you are gonna have BIG problems.
     
  4. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    An easier way is to stick a thick screwdriver or drift into the rotor just above the caliper, that will hold it too.

    But even better is to make and/or use the right tool to hold the pulley.

    If all else fails, read the instructions, right? :biggrin5:

    But now that he's got it stuck 1/5 of the way on, can he get it back off without damaging it?
     
  5. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    I think that's the real question right now... pull it / warm it / try again or just stop the hub from spinning by one of the mechanisms above and then tighten the bolt to spec.

    I think that I'd be tempted to see if it will pull back out easily and try it again with heat and a friend on the brakes. I just don't know what pulling a pulley like the ATI does to the internal structure.
     
  6. 00zero

    00zero New Member

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    #6 00zero, Mar 26, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
    agranger i was following your instruction they were / are very helpful, thanks.

    ill try dropping the driver side of the car as i have all 4 wheels up. i don't know why i didn't think of that.

    i suspect i didn't get the pulley hot enough. I will try pulling it back off and re heating / installing. I would imagine pulling it should be the same as the oe if get the correct bolts. It cant plastically deform the mating surface or it wouldn't stay on.

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    -Jonathan
     
  7. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

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    Jonathan, are you saying the clutch is not holding sufficient clamping force with the rotors locked? If this is the case, then remove the damper and check for gouging from burs, remove with fine sand paper if found. If the clutch is not slipping, then start the wind-up sooner so you'll have greater leverage at the point of break-away.
     
  8. quikmni

    quikmni Moderator

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    With one front corner on jack stands the other front tire will probably be off the ground or only slightly touching the ground without much weight on it and the tire will most likely spin when you tigthen the bolt.

    During the install did you just have the car in gear and nothing holding the brake rotor (screwdriver or brake pads)? If so, try applying the brakes to hold the rotor.

    If it is really hard to get on, I would look for something being wrong. Maybe not going on straight, burr on pulley, burr on crankshaft.

    You might need to remove the pulley, heat it up, and start the process again.
     
  9. Way Motor Works

    Way Motor Works New Member

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    You don't need to heat it. I've never heated one to install, and I did two last week alone.
    Have someone hold the brakes and use the bolt to pull it on, then install a new crank bolt and torque it.
    I use the factory installer, but you can use the bolt in a pinch.
     
  10. 00zero

    00zero New Member

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    Thanks everyone for the advice.

    huervo, whenever i would try to turn the bolt the crank turns a little less then an 1/8 of a turn and will spring back. So i was only getting a 1/20 of a turn at a time on the bolt and it was exhausting.

    agranger, your guide was a big help.

    Way, good to know i don't have to heat it. Going from the kitchen to the garage with a hot pulley is a pain.

    I will have to wait till the weekend to tackle it, i have a work trip. I will get a proper helper and get this tackled.

    i did talk to ATI, the bolts to use a puller on the ATI are 5/16"-18 and when they say heat the pulley they mean to 250-300f. Just an FYI.

    -Jonathan
     
  11. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

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    My number one suggestion is to use an appropriate installer tool, OEM preferable, but I'm sure there are rentals that will suffice. Number two if you must use an impact, I suggest a torque stick rated at 65 lb-ft to prevent over-tightening. If you're only turning 1/20th with a ratchet, you're not giving yourself enough room. I suggest 15 inches of 1/2 square drive extension to reach from outside the wheel well for greater turn radius, and at least a 15 inch ratchet or breaker bar for leverage.
     
  12. 00zero

    00zero New Member

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    #12 00zero, Apr 2, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
    Update, mission accomplished.

    I had a burr that had the pulley going on a bit crooked or vise verse. I cleaned up the galling on the crank and pulley, cleaned everything up real well. I put the pulley in the oven at 275f, the over was recently calibrated so i wasn't worried about it over heating the pulley.

    To my surprise the pulley literally dropped on and bottomed out without any effort. I didn't need the ATI bolt or anything, put the new crank bolt on and all is well. the sanding to remove the galling may have helped but when i talked to ATI last week he said heat to 250 - 300f and it would drop right on, it did.

    So to all of those thinking of trying this heating the pulley means 250 - 275f and it should drop on or go on with little effort. Error on the side of caution as over 300f will damage the rubber in the pulley.

    Thanks everyone for the advice.

    -Jonathan
     
  13. quikmni

    quikmni Moderator

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    Thanks for the update. Glad you resolved the issue and got the pulley installed.
     
  14. wotagame

    wotagame New Member

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    Does anyone know where to rent or otherwise borrow the tool that stops the crank from turning? Thanks.
     
  15. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    You could try calling Way at WMW or Chad at Detroit Tuned.:idea:
     
  16. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

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    Insert a screwdriver in a brake rotor vein on each side, place in gear.
     
  17. quikmni

    quikmni Moderator

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    Also can try putting the car in gear and having someone apply the brakes (hard on the brakes). I was able to get the bolt torques with this technique.
     

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