Has anyone used a plain backing plate, without pad as a spacer between your remaining brake pad and the brake piston once your pads are about half worn down? I've heard of people doing this before on other cars; was wondering if it was reasonably safe to do on a MINI (I have the BDM kit). Would be nice for pedal travel....
No - Never noticed the peddle getting longer by more than a half inch or so due to pad wear. And I wear the ST-43s till the middle channel is gone. After that they start to chunk. Unless you are using a non-thermal conducting shim to better isolate the caliper. BDM under 15X7s
I ran my Carbotech's down to the halfway point, may even be slightly lower on the driver's outside pad--I have another set (on the track tomorrow), so for now, to be safe, I just put the new ones in (although at Autobahn I'm pretty sure this set has another day in them--Probably not at Blackhawk though; I really wore these down there--30 minute sessions may be pushing it there). Marked difference in pedal travel--it's the difference between an easy heel-toe downshift and one that's almost impossible.... I've seen brake kits with spacers that go over the cylinders, to people using blank backing plates to add a little depth to the pads--but I'm not sure how safe that is. For now, I'll bite the bullet and put on fresh pads. Now that I've got brake ducts, maybe I'll go back to the Raybestos pads; they're a hell of a lot cheaper...
Same here Paul, run mine way down and don't get much measurable difference in the peddle. Course I bleed the brakes after a track day as I switch back and forth from the street and track brake setups....
Same here. Pedal travel shouldn't be any different as the brake fluid reservoir has plenty of extra volume. Side note......spellcheck came up with Macabre as a suggestion for Blimey :lol::lol:
a lot of pedal travel sounds like other issues. The reason that one uses a hydrolic system is so that pedal travel won't be an issue. Matt
I bleed the brakes after every event too... Yeah, I know--and I had it checked from top to bottom, nothing (apparently) they can find wrong... Just got back from autobahn--I'm getting much more wear on the drivers side outer pad than on any of the other pads--there's quite a bit of difference in pad thickness between the outer drivers side pad and the rest. Happened at Blackhawk too.... As the day goes on, once again, increased pedal travel. Time to buy an Elise?
New calipers would be cheaper... LOL Sounds like its dragging the pad and with the extra peddle I'd be very suspect of that caliper. Might seem fine up on the lift but whats going on when its at track temps? 2 cents
CT's are fun 'cause they're so silky smooth, but I could never get them to recover after a hard session. They wear down fast. While the ST-43 isn't nearly as supple, they'll come back with a few easy laps, especially with ducts on. And they're almost half price for the fronts! Also, how often do you guys rebuild calipers? That might be your problem.
If you have not replaced the piston seals recently you should. When I had the BDM (I now have the TCE Plus 4 kit) I had to replace the seals twice a year. They get extremely leathery after heavy use. That might be keeping the pad from retracting away from the rotor like it should.
I switched to the Carbotechs after getting less than stellar rotor life with the ST-43. With the XP12's, the rotors look fantastic, BUT, I added ducts, and got the newer treated rotors, both of which may be helping more than the pads. I can modulate better with the Carbotechs, but they don't have the bite of the Rabestos pads--maybe it's just me though. I'm thinking rebuilding the caliper is in the cards. Not going to be out on the track until Sept. 17th, so now's a good time. That may be the problem. I haven't replaced the seals, and they've hit high temps. I'm just going to go ahead and rebuild them...Which brings me to the next question--what all do I need for a rebuild? I remember Nate posting somewhere that it was easy to do; I have the time, but I'd like to get whatever tools and parts ordered and get it done ASAP. I think the plan of action will be to rebuild, stick with the carbotech's for now (although I think I'll go with XP8s on the rear, the XP10's on the rear don't appear to be doing much), and if I go through the pads as quickly as I am currently, switch back to the Raybestos--with the ducts and the treated rotors, maybe that will work out just fine. Thanks for the help, at least I feel things are going in the right direction...
The 12s on the front and 8s on the rear have been working great for me, plan no changes in the near future!
I've been looking at rebuilding mine, too. You can get the rear caliper dust boots in a kit from MiniMania (NMB7606) but I'm not sure if you can disassemble the caliper and replace the seal. TSW used to have the front caliper rebuild kits, but I couldn't get ahold of Way this afternoon to inquire. It's mostly a matter of figuring out the piston size used in this application of the Outlaw 2000 calipers. I haven't done this before but here's what my research turned up. Essentially, you pull the caliper off the car, disconnect the brake line, and put a thin wood slat between the pistons. Use compressed air at ~40psi with some sort of tip that will blow air through the bleed valve to blow the pistons out. Not sure exactly how that part works. Then check both pistons and bores for damage and use a scotch brite pad to take off any corrosion or gunk. Replace the o-ring seals and lubricate the pistons with a bit of brake fluid, then carefully reinsert pistons. Attach brake lines and bleed. You can use vacuum line caps to seal off the brake lines while the calipers are off.
I'll try to get ahold of Way too this afternoon; I'll post back if I do, looks like we're both needing the same thing. I checked out a link on rebuilding calipers, and it's pretty much what you said. What are you going to use for the line caps? That's been one of things that I wondered about--how to cap the front lines after taking them off the caliper. Maybe the rebuild kit comes with? I wonder if the TSW guys put a kit together and sold it as a courtesy, or if there is a kit outlaw makes (if there is, I can't find it), that TSW was selling...Either way, if Way has it available, I'll buy it there. I definitely want to do this--I fried the rotor on the drivers outside last year; after all this, I'm betting on there being an issue with those outside pistons. All makes sense now. Thing is, I could get another day out of my carbotechs, except for the drivers outside pad. Can't wait to get this done. I may PM Nate if he doesn't post here, try to get him to give his experience, as I know he's done it from another thread, and he commented on how easy it was.
I have rebuilt these calipers 4 or 5 times now, here is what has worked for me. Remove the calipers remove the brake line from the calipers cover the brake line with a plastic baggie and rubber band, pull the baggie tight around the end of the line place a piece of wood in the center of the caliper in between the little pieces of metal that stick out (this will make sense once you are looking at it) use compressed air to blow out the pistons, I find that gental pressure works best at the beginning, but my compressor is normally set to 70 psi remove the old seals with a pick clean off the pistons as well as the calipers the best you can, I use a small nylon brush along with 2 cans of brake cleaner once everything is clean, blow all the remaining brake cleaner out with compressed air and generally make sure everything is somewhat dry insert the new piston seals and lubricate with brake fluid re-insert the pistons, this can be a little bit tricky as they are a tight fit, the key is to make sure the piston is going in straight. It will take a descent amount of force to get the pistons in. reassemble and bleed the brakes The most difficult part of the whole process is getting the pistons out of the calipers. If a piston comes out before all 4 are just hanging there, put it back in and make sure the piece of wood keeps it from coming out again. Ideally you want a piece of wood that is thick enough to allow the pistons to come almost all the way out, but not. As soon as a single piston comes out, you loose all air pressure and the pistons become very difficult to get out. I would either buy the seals from TSW or from Pegasus racing here:Pegasus - Outlaw 1.38" Square Caliper Seals, (4 Pack). You will need 2 of those packs or a total of 8 seals. The seals along with some brake cleaner and brake fluid are the only materials you need to do this job. I can now do the job in less than 2 hours. It probably took me more than 3 the first time I did it.
Awesome, Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure I still have the TSW installation instructions laying around, so all should be good.
gentle genital pressure, it's all good... Back on topic--found this, kind of adds pictures to btw's excellent instructions: Brake Caliper Rebuild - Do-It-Yourself Instructions For Racers - Circle Track Magazine