2004 R53 (re)Build Thread

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by trevhead, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    #61 trevhead, Mar 12, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
    I'm going to attempt to do this closer to the right way, maybe, and try to tap and die new threads for the correct M6 bolt. We'll see. Not a lot of metal to work with there, but with the thing out of the car and on the bench, I can actually work with it.

    I told my wife this morning that is yet another example of the lesson I've been taught before yet continue to refuse to learn... just don't try to find the easy way out when the actual solution appears to be a little bit more difficult than I'd like. I'm stuck at this step simply because I didn't want to take the intake duct out because I remembered how hard it was put back in. If I'd just taken it out weeks ago when I did the first disassembly, I might have tried to drill it out. Live and learn, nothing to beat myself up about, just more valuable experience for the next time. And there will be a next time! If not the Mini, some other car will hopefully benefit from me knowing a little bit more than I did this time around.
     
  2. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    I am sure all of us here have learned the same lesson. I have a friend that was a big help when I was restoring my Indian. He is an old retired welder that has been into bikes his whole life, he was a good friend of my step dad. I learned a lot from them both. Every time I was about to cut a corner on restoring my bike my friend would say “pay me now or pay me later”. A few times when I would ask his thoughts on what I needed to do I would get a little mad about the answer he would laugh and say pay me now or pay me later. One day I was having a hard time and he said that to me and I said your just pissing me off, he laughed and said pay me now or pay me later.
    Every time I am working on something and know I have to do something hard I hear his words. I have learned pay me later is much worse then pay me now.

    pay me now or pay me later my friend:D




    P.S. I just ordered a new clutch for my bike because I didn’t listen two years ago.:(:D
     
  3. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Man, I needed that story. Brilliant. Absolute truth.


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  4. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Today's update. It's a head scratcher. Head shaker more like it.

    I was successful with the tap and die on the intake duct, more or less. Got the old junk drilled out completely and new threads inserted. Test fitting the M6 fastener before reinstalling worked just fine. Everything went back together really nice and easy. Guess it's all that practice I've had recently. Only sore spot is that new thread isn't biting well at all. The M6 is threaded into it for sure, but I can't torque it. The TB bolts only torque to 7 ft-lbs, but before the torque wrench will click, that bolt has slipped out of the new threads. It's that feeling of tightening then popping loose, then tightening again. I just left it. I might take the TB out again tomorrow and see about rethreading the hole, or, doing what I mentioned the other night - getting a longer M6 and a nut. I actually like that plan better tbh.

    I haven't put the front end back on yet, but I did reconnect the battery and cleared the old codes, and cleared all adaptations. To be certain, I used my Creator C310 to clear each adaptation individually, and then I used the onboard computer with the series of trip reset button presses and going in the coded menu there to run through the process described by Detroit Tuned in their instructions for their bypass valve.

    The car started right up and, unfortunately, it sounds the exact same as it did before. It sounds rough, like it's missing. To my ear tonight, and who really knows if this is accurate at all, it sounds like the roughness can only be heard on the exhaust side. I don't hear the engine itself making any rough or missing noises. Because of that, I'm going to double check my torque values on the exhaust manifold. But it seems I'd have to have been pretty far off with those for the manifold to be loose enough to sound like this.

    On the subject of exhaust - there is a ton of moisture in my exhaust. Ever since putting it back together the first time, after the cylinder head was off for a week, the exhaust pipes spit out a good amount of sooty water. I did keep the pistons covered with shop towels while the head was out. I know that condensation is normal, but it seems like a lot to still be in there. Although it did just sit for a week all over again, maybe it's normal.

    No codes while idling in the garage tonight but I'm sure that's because it hasn't hit the criteria the computer needs to log a code, but I'm also pretty sure the codes will come back after a few miles of driving.

    I do want to test the compression tomorrow. It will probably still read low since the idle is the same as it was. Then I'll put the front end back on and drive it and see what happens. I just don't know what else to do at this point.
     
  5. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Use the longer bolt and a nut on the TB, that’s the best solution. Did you straighten the bracket that bolts to the TB so it doesn’t interfere with the BPV?
    Could the miss you hear on the exhaust side be an exhaust leak?
    Check to make sure oil and water are not mixing.
    You have been at this a long time. Be careful that you see shadows where there are none.
     
  6. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Yeah, I got that bracket positioned properly, it’s attached to the TB the way it’s supposed to be and out of the way of the new BPV.

    I’m going to double check the torque on the exhaust manifold fasteners today to be sure there’s not an obvious leak right there.

    I’m pretty sure oil and coolant aren’t mixing, but I guess I won’t know for sure until I drain it the next time.


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  7. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    #67 trevhead, Mar 14, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
    Positive news. Car is running, and much, much better than a week ago or last night.

    The idle is not quite right, still. There’s a miss to it. But, it’s significantly improved. All I did was take off the stock belt, which is supposed to be acceptable with the 2% bigger crank pulley and the 15% reduction pulley on the supercharger. But when I talked to Chad at DT he said that may technically work but that it should really have a shorter belt on it for that combo. I ordered it from him that day, about a week ago, and forgot to mention here that was going to be my last step. I didn’t expect it do anything but I wanted it to be the right tension.

    Shorter belt, smooth idle again. The difference is in the elimination of the low, deep resonance that didn’t sound right at all. Now the idle frequency sounds right, but it has a bit of fluctuation to it that doesn’t sound normal. So much better though.

    My son has the car out now on his own after we drove it together for awhile. It feels zippy and powerfully again, so things are looking up.

    However... after the drive, it had a code for the old Misfire Cylinder 2. No SES light though (although the ASC light comes on and stays on, which it does when overboost is detected. What I’ve read is that will be normal from now on thanks to the reduction pulley causing boost beyond what the normal R53 computer is programmed to call normal.)

    The misfire is likely what I hear at the new and improved idle. Driving is basically perfect. Honestly it felt pretty amazing again while driving today, so that feels great.

    Didn’t do the compression test, my son was pretty antsy to get the car out to see some friends and I was out of energy for one more thing to do anyway. We’ll check the compression at some point this week and have more data to go on.

    Not sure how seriously I should take this misfire. I want to find it. All this work just to cook the cat or something like that by ignoring the obvious would be ridiculous.

    Getting there!
     
  8. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    I'm about at the end of my rope. As of yesterday, the car is behaving the exact same way as it was when I first posted here back in January in a different thread about the misfire on cylinder. Yesterday afternoon, it did everything all over again that it did in January:
    • cold start, SES blinked
    • engine turned over, revved up to about 1200, stayed there, then dropped
    • idled rough as revs fell under 800
    • engine died
    • waited a moment, cranked again, started up fine, no blinking SES. idling at 800-900 as it did on Sunday, sounding good except for an audible miss
    • trouble code for Misfire Cylinder 2
    Exact same behavior it had when I embarked on this whole thing, which is now feeling like a fool's errand. This is what led to the diagnosis of the burned valve on cylinder 2. Which led to the valve job. And everything else documented in this thread. And I'm back to zero with this thing.

    Last night I was becoming convinced that the misfire and the low compression on all four cylinders was a timing issue, and that I messed up the timing with the new timing chain. Even though I have a photo of the chain, lined up properly to the arrow on the cam sprocket and to the two arrows on the crank sprocket, taken immediately before I reinstalled the timing cover. But that's not it, it can't be, because the engine is doing exactly what it was doing before I ever touched the timing chain or even looked at it.

    IMG_0673.jpg IMG_0674.jpg

    I think I have time tonight to pull it back in the garage, on the ground not stands, and at least test the compression to confirm for myself that it is in fact still running very low compression. I plan to do dry and wet on each cylinder so I can get all the data I'm capable of. Question of course is, then what... say the compression is still low. Okay. Cylinder 2 is misfiring. Okay. What do I already know about that... the injectors were resealed and bench tested and passed. Cylinder head is machined and there are no signs of leaking anywhere around the seam/head gasket. I have brand new NGK plugs installed (cooler ones for the added boost). Ignition coil and wires didn't affect anything when I swapped my new-ish ones for brand new.

    I haven't done anything with fuel delivery yet, i.e. fuel filter and/or fuel pump. I probably should.

    I'm circling my mind back to where I was a few weeks ago thinking about everything I changed/modded at the same time, wishing I'd done things one at a time. The crank pulley feels like the outlier to me. I've put on this super-lightweight 1 lb non-dampened crank pulley. Changing the belt length on Sunday by 15mm (I think that was the difference) significantly changed the idle. Stands to reason that a different crank pulley would too, even though Chad at DT who I trust told me it won't. It has to, right? Different mass completely, in a big way. Old tired out engine. I'm thinking about pulling it and putting the stock pulley back on, cracked dampener and all, just to start it and see if it's different. Then buy the PRW crank pulley and put that on if it runs better with the old stock pulley back on. I'll need yet another different length belt to do that but at least they're cheap.

    Guess I'm rambling now. I'm out of bullets. I've managed to fall down the rabbit hole of a many a DIYer I guess, spending a few grand and a month of weekends in the garage and I know exactly what I knew about these problems when I first showed up. Misfire, bad idle, engine dies sometimes. Although I've learned about working on the car which is cool. I just have to solve this.

    Freakin A.
     
  9. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Yours is a noble quest. Good luck with the compression tests.
     
  10. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    "Pay me now or pay me later."

    It sounds like my project management mantra of "You can have it fast, cheap, right or complete... pick 2."
     
  11. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Great mantra. :Thumbsup::Thumbsup:
     
  12. agranger

    agranger MINI of the Month June 2009
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    It's a simplification of the Golden Triangle of Project Management... basically, if you tweak one of those factors, you have to adjust at least one of the others to compensate. If not, you are breaking the laws of physics (or geometry) or blowing smoke.


    [​IMG]

    OK... back to MINIs! :p
     
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  13. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    I've been quiet this week, didn't touch the car until today. I promise I won't leave loose ends with this and will continue to update as I go, and hopefully end up with a resolution. No such luck yet today.

    All I did today is check the compression myself for the first time. I drove the car first to get the temperature up to normal operation temp. When testing compression, I unplugged the coil pack, removed all four spark plugs and cranked it with the accelerator all the way down until the pressure gauge stopped going up. I read averages of:
    1. cylinder 1: 137 psi
    2. cylinder 2: 127 psi
    3. cylinder 3: 135 psi
    4. cylinder 4: 130 psi
    Pretty far from the 60 psi my mechanic got. There's no way they did that on a warm engine. They must have checked it when cold, probably because I was telling them that the misfire and rough idle was only on cold startups. But more accurately, the idle is rough and missing regardless of engine temp. Does it when cold and when warmed up. Everything is still great under power, but as soon as the car stops, the idle is rough and audibly missing.

    Also, I had it in my head, somehow, that this engine's normal compression is 90 psi. I went to double check that as soon as I read cylinder 1 at 140 (first reading), and now I'm only finding references to the R53 having normal compression anywhere from the 150s to 170s. Appears I'm low, but not insanely low like I thought. That cylinder 2 is the outlier though, and that's where the misfire code continues to be focused.

    I'm nearly out of ideas. I could go chasing more of the fuel delivery system, like the fuel filter and pump, but those wouldn't have anything to do with a misfire specific to just one cylinder. All I can think of right now is to just focus on the basics - air, spark, fuel. I've dealt with air - fresh valve job and no more vacuum leaks. I've dealt with spark - brand new, cooler NGK plugs, and confirmed that my coil pack and plug wires are good (based on putting in new ones that didn't change anything). Fuel is all that's left, and in my mind it's all down to the cylinder 2 injector now. Even though my mechanic bench tested the injectors and told me they are fine, I'm going to try swapping injectors between cylinder 2 and 3 or 4 to see if the misfire code moves with it. I should have done that first, and I feel like it has to be that injector. I don't know how else to explain the persistent misfire on cylinder 2 after everything else that has been done.

    In other news, I'm going to cut bait on the 2% undampened pulley. I bought the PRW and will put that in assuming I solve this misfire soon.
     
  14. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    That compression is not low enough to chaise a misfire. I think moving the injectors is a great way to trouble shoot. I am sure a fuel filter will not fix the misfire but I am sure it needs changing. I can’t help but wonder if it an electric problem
     
  15. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Me too... check this out. Two days ago we got new codes in addition to cyl 2 misfire and cyl 2 misfire with low fuel. Now we get two ignition coils codes, for “A” and “B.”

    The first thing I did on this back in January was put in brand new plug wires and ignition coil. Nothing changed and I returned them, stuck with what we had which are only 20,000 miles old. But. Second guessing now. What if I didn’t properly clear the codes and thought the code was still present but really I didn’t do the process right? At some point in this work I realized that I had to clear the codes a certain way to get them go away so the computer could start logging the criteria correctly again to show codes again or not. I think it’s possible I didn’t do it right back in January when I put in new wires and coil.

    I have new plug wires arriving today, will pop this in tonight and properly clear codes and see what it does this weekend. If it’s still misfiring then I’ll get into injector swaps.

    There is just not much else left to do. This is coming down to something very simple that I’ve been blind to so far.


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  16. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Well here’s hoping this solves the problem.
     
  17. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Were you able to correct your problems or has this turned up the frustration level another notch ??
     
  18. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Frustration level is high!

    Plug wires did nothing (forgot to come back for that update / non-update). But they’re good NGK wires so I left them in. And they’re blue, so extra 20 hp even on three cylinders right?!

    I still need to try the injector swap. Just no time to get into that. Hoping to do it by Sunday this weekend. After that, if the misfire doesn’t move with injector 2, I think I’ll be officially out of ideas.

    The misfire is pretty bad now, constant at idle and if it idles long enough I’m pretty sure cylinder 2 is shutting down all the way. As long as it doesn’t idle for very long, it still feels great under power.


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  19. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the injectors.
     
  20. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Have you checked the fuel pressure?
     

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