2004 R53 (re)Build Thread

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by trevhead, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    makes sense to test the injector again to be sure it's repeating this behavior and that I didn't just see it go off because the tester shook itself loose. we did check it twice with the same result, but I didn't think to make sure the tester was seated after the engine started up.
     
  2. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    #102 MCS02, Apr 7, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
    I’m thinking more like @00Mini that it may be a problem in the plug on the injector it’s self. If not it’s down to checking a length at a time. I would not replace the wiring harness sense you don’t know if that is it.

    I would order about 10 of these that’s about $20

    https://www.detroittuned.com/phone-tech-support/

    When he calls tell him what you did he may know the problem. I almost know he will.
     
  3. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Switching number two plug for any other plug is quick, easy and will give you info to go in another direction if need be.
     
  4. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    I didn’t know about that option with DT, that’s a great idea.

    You’re right, could be the wired connector that plug into the injector. I’ve ruled out several things but now it could be anything from the injector plug on back to the ECU. I also don’t think it’s the wiring harness though now that I’ve had more time to read responses and think. I don’t think a wiring problem would let the injector start up with the other three as normal and then shut down.

    There is a thread on another forum where a guy was chasing a misfire on cylinder 2 like me. He discovered this behavior too where injector 2 worked but shut off after a few seconds of the engine idling. In his case, he tested the resistance of his spark plugs and found the plug on cylinder 2 to have really high resistance. He replaced it and the problem was solved. That’s not going to be the solution for me. Since the misfire started, I swapped plugs with no change, then put in a brand new plug with no change, then took the cylinder head out for the valve job, then I put in all four brand new plugs after the cylinder head went back in. I haven’t swapped them around again just yet but as 00Mini said that’s easy, and I can try that, but I can’t see anything different happening there.

    On the spark plug thought, maybe this... when I tested plug 2 for spark, I didn’t want to crank the engine much at all to do that and I didn’t want to turn it over all the way. I pulled all four plug wires so that the engine would crank, show me the spark and that was it. We cranked it only two or three cranks, just enough that I saw the spark and said okay. But now I wonder if that plug is what stops firing after a few seconds of idling. Still it wouldn’t be solved with a new spark plug and I have new plug wires in for the second time, so I’d have to test the signal from the ignition coil. At least to rule that out and then be back to the ECU or injector wiring or injector wire plug theory.

    I’m done to a chicken and egg thing. Either the cylinder starts to misfire first and then the ECU shuts off the injector (does it even work that way?) or something tells the ECU to shut off the injector which then causes an obvious misfire (logging the misfire code).


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  5. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    I could be a problem with the coil pack if you stop getting spark. I would do what you said and crank the motor to see if the spark plug keeps firing. If it does keep firing then your back to the injector. If it doesn’t you know it’s in the firing. That will take about 5 min to check. Then I would talk to Chad. He has talked to me with out sending money but I usually send something if I’m not buying a part. I really think I would talk to him.
     
  6. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Yeah I’ll definitely try chatting with Chad, happy to send some dollars his way for the effort too.

    Question about the spark plug test. I didn’t crank the engine very long because the whole situation was making me nervous. I unplugged all four plugs so that it wouldn’t turn over, but if I keep the other three plugged in so the engine will run, is that okay? Am I flooding the cylinder with fuel when it’s cranked with the cylinder 2 plug out and not there to ignite the fuel? Or could I avoid that by unplugging that injector? It all seems kinda hairy but I’ve never done it before so it’s always an adventure with each of the new things I learn to do to this car.


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  7. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    You can try cranking the car with all the plugs then pull the number 2 wire and lift it a little, some times you can hear when it arks to the plug
     
  8. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully you got your car running and have been enjoying it.
     
  9. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    An update would be good.
     
  10. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Hi guys. Sorry for going dark. Mainly there has been no progress, but also, my Tapatalk app started firing off notifications for any new posts, I couldn’t figure out how to make it only notify from what I was following like it always had, so I turned notifications off completely. Then didn’t think to check manually for new posts in here. Didn’t mean to disappear.

    I decided to let the dealer look at it. I got it to them last Friday, and they’ve really been great. The service advisor understood where I’m coming from that I just want diagnostic help, so they got into it. I just got a update today in the form of inspection videos from the mechanic. The news is not good, but I didn’t connect with the advisor on the phone for more detailed follow up, we missed each other’s calls.

    The tech did a lot of testing and ruled out wiring, DME, plugs, ignition, injectors, and fuel pressure. All of those check out a-ok. And of course he confirmed the misfire on cylinder 2.

    Compression tests were unbelievably bad... he did dry and wet:
    Dry, cylinders 1-4 = 50/30/45/50 psi
    Wet, cylinders 1-4 = 70/60/80/100 psi
    Should be between 130-195.
    These low readings are what my mechanic got, crazy low. Testing at home I got 130 and above. So I’m doing it wrong or my tester is bad I guess.

    then he did a leak down test:
    Cylinders 1-4 = 15% / 10% / 5% / 10%

    I don’t know the context of the leak down numbers yet. Guessing they are not good either.

    then he had video of air pressure hooked up to cylinder 2, and there’s a loud air leak from the crankcase.

    then he zoomed in on the camshaft to show a worn lobe. Also visible damage on the cam roller, gouges. Finally he said the lifter on cylinder 2 needs to be replaced.

    I’ll be able to connect with them tomorrow and talk through it, get more details. All in all it’s expensive news, if not dire news.

    I did talk to the DetroitTuned guys a few weeks ago. They were stumped on the phone with all the info I had at the time. Once I get the full story from the dealership tomorrow I’ll probably talk with DT again and try to figure out what I’m going to do. As in, fix it or give up. I really don’t want to quit after getting this far.

    I have been really happy with the dealer service department this week though, and surprised by that.
     
  11. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    I should be able to share the videos from the tech... you can see all the other mess this car has going on before he even gets to the engine trouble. Kinda feeling like a nightmare.

    video 1 - this ends right as he gets to the camshaft
    https://api.mykaarma.com/video-walkaround/details?inspection_uuid=6089870263ef0b000135db8f&fileType=image_and_video

    video 2 - picks up where first video left off
    https://api.mykaarma.com/video-walkaround/details?inspection_uuid=608987891c93b3000111d91c&fileType=image_and_video
     
  12. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear your bad news.
     
  13. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Well Thats not good news. You will ether need to replace the motor or do a complete rebuild. Allmeg has a R53 motor with 49K miles and the compression test was 150 all cylinders with a leak down of 20% for $2299.99. You would have to put all your parts on it, it is just a long block. This may be the most economical course.

    https://www.allmagautoparts.com/collections/mini-cooper/products/mini-cooper-s-engine-supercharged-1-6l-49k-miles-2002-2008-r52-r53

    I am not sure what you would spend rebuilding the motor you would have to price the parts and machine shop work. Doing a rebuild is not extremely hard, these days its getting all the other stuff bolted back in place that is a pain. But when you do a rebuild you must check everything. You have to take you time and check all your clearness before you just slap it together. The up side is you can use it as an excuse to build a killer motor.

    Keep in mind all the other stuff you need to fix when making your decision. You have some suspension parts to fix. That wont be bad and can be done while the motor is out. In the south we don't see much rust. If I were to keep that car I would probably clean up that surface rust and pant it so the car will last longer. This wont cost anything just time.

    At this point you are not going to get your money out of the car. I guess there are three avenues you can take. From worse to best.

    1 Cut your losses. This one hurts the worse.

    2 Buy the motor from Allmeg and get it on the road. (this sounds like a good motor)

    3 Turn it into a project car you and your son can enjoy working on together.

    There may be a forth option, having the dealer do it but that will be expensive.

    It's hard to give advise in this case. Do you have room for a project car, do you need the car to be running quickly, how much do you want to spend? These are just a few questions I would have to answer.


    I will leave you with this story. When my youngest son was 16 we put a set of long tube headers on his Mustang. We started early on a Saturday morning and stoped at 3 AM Sunday morning. We needed to get a little sleep before church. The next day I saw that around 2 AM before we stopped working, my son had tweeted " Listening to Bob Seger and an old man talk to himself, I love you dad" Time with your son is priceless. Going the Allmeg way is still a good project for you two.

    Good luck
     
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  14. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    The good thing about going the long block or rebuild route is that you have lots of good parts on hand. Good luck as this is most likely not going to be an easy decision.
     
  15. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    My opinion..........decide whether or not this is a car you want to keep, for a long time. I want to keep mine for a while longer myself. I put almost $4k into it last spring. Still cheaper than car payments and insurance on a new car.
     
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  16. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    Just got off the phone with the service advisor. Their plan, at $2,260 all-in including tax, is to replace the camshaft and the rocker arm (intake side I believe). Their take is that everything else can wait, with a certain amount of urgent priority of course (suspension, brake lines, and rear main seal and power steering leaks).

    So. On the one hand I'm thinking well, okay, I'm not going to do $2200 for the cam and levers (and he was transparent in telling me that price is almost all parts and markup, not many hours of labor which he said surprised him). But I can buy BMW/MINI original camshaft for $592 (already forget where I saw that but will easily find it again, was one of the good sites like MiniMania or ECS or something), or an aftermarket by some company called AE for $297 at Pelican. Not sure a cam is a part I want to save money on... any opnions there? Half price is appealing!!!

    Lee, you're saying this is pointing at a complete rebuild, and if so, I totally agree with your idea to just replace the motor. That is almost exciting. But, is the dealer missing something huge here? Really, his demeanor was so positive, saying he knows this sounds bad but in the grand scheme of things we're looking at two parts that are incredibly easy to access and replace. And he didn't bat an eye at me saying I'd probably just save money and buy my own parts and do it at home, he was like Yup, that is completely do-able.

    So are you guys coming at this from the perspective that my engine is probably wrecked as a result of this going on so long with a bad camshaft? And that throwing money at the engine I have is a bad idea, and if I want to keep the car (by now you've all correctly guessed that I do) that I'm better off going big and either rebuilding or replacing the whole engine?
     
  17. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    also, you all are just awesome. thanks for hanging with me through this whole ordeal.
     
  18. trevhead

    trevhead Active Member

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    This is just fantastic. Completely agree. Me and my car-guy (and a car-girl) friends often lament where things seem to be headed with car culture, but I'm not so sure it's all over just yet... my son is 18 and we're having a great time, if stressful, sorting this car out. He absolutely loves the car, and he's such a stoic, almost emotionless type of personality, that it means A LOT that he's got this interest in it. Then the other end of the spectrum, I'm 45, and spent last Sunday with my dad, who's 74, getting his 1965 Austin Healey leak-free (for now!) and out on the road. Cars are just good.
     
  19. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    Well……..I would like to get some others here to pip in on what I am about to say.

    the problem is you have a compression problem. If the wet numbers were the same as dry then I would be more confident on just doing the cam. But the wet numbers are better, on one cylinder it was twice as much. This is an indication the rings are bad. So just doing the cam won’t help that. I would call and ask them about that. I would not spend 2k on a motor that has more problems without doing it all. The Motor at Allmeg sounds like it is in good shape but it’s a used engine so you never know. But then agin you will get a whole motor for what they want for a cam.
    I agree completely with @ScottinBend if you want to keep it it’s worth doing.
     
  20. 00Mini

    00Mini Well-Known Member

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    MCS02 is correct in his thoughts on the in place motor. The mechanic said air was blowing in the crankcase on cylinder 2 which indicates bad rings. So I believe you are back to rebuilding a motor, a good used motor or good/rebuilt long block. I don’t believe you or your son would be happy with just the repair of the head as that will not address bad piston rings.
     

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