2014 - F1

Discussion in 'Motorsports Chat & Race Preparation' started by Nathan, Sep 6, 2013.

Tags:
  1. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    19,445
    10,057
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +11,698 / 2 / -0
    Infrared burnout

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvuBe6b2iVk"]Red Bull Racing's RB8 Tearing it Up in Infrared - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Administrator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator

    Apr 23, 2009
    12,154
    3,164
    113
    Maryland, USA
    Ratings:
    +3,166 / 0 / -0
    I've read a lot about this Ros / Ham biz since the race. A lot being said and I've decided there's no way to be sure at this point exactly what Rosberg actually said post-race much less what he meant by it.

    Everyone is doing their own interpreting and, not surprisingly, interpretations from the media and pundits are as sensationalistic as they can manage. That said, I'll take a turn; here's my guess. :biggrin5: I think when he said (if he actually used these words) "I did it to prove a point", the important question is what point was he trying to prove? Pretty much everyone assumes Hamilton's interpretation -- that Rosberg meant to deliberately cause a collision in an attempt to ruin Hamilton's race -- is "the point" Rosberg meant to make. I don't believe it.

    I think he just refused to automatically give the line to Hamilton and let the collision happen in order to make it clear that he wouldn't be intimidated ..... and it backfired on him, big time. He could have moved to avoid the collision and he chose not to. That choice alone will get him a double slap on the wrists from Herr Wolff, regardless of his post-race comments.

    So, there's the question of intent which may be investigated by the FIA. But regardless of whether Rosberg was "proving a point" there was still an incident and the question of blame. Rosberg's trouble is, Hamilton was ahead by more than a half car length (in fact, I think the first touch was between Rosberg's front tire and Hamilton's rear). Then Hamilton, who was moving faster at that point, pulled further along before the collision between Rosberg's nose and Hamilton's rear tire. If I understand the usual etiquette (or whatever it is) I think Hamilton had the right to the racing line into the corner and that it was Rosberg's responsibility to avoid the collision. Or did Hamilton chop across aggressively so he deserves the blame? Or was it just a racing incident?

    There's the rub. Thanks to Rosberg's words, whatever they really were, someone is likely to decide it can't be considered a no-fault incident. If he'd kept his mouth shut that incident would have just been fodder for blame-game discussions, but he made it much worse. Now it's Ros/Ham-gate.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Administrator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator

    Apr 23, 2009
    12,154
    3,164
    113
    Maryland, USA
    Ratings:
    +3,166 / 0 / -0
    I feel sorry for Magnussen.

    Magnussen handed 20 second time penalty for Alonso clash (nbcsports.com)
     
  4. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Sep 30, 2011
    5,083
    1,762
    113
    Male
    Sales and Marketing manager
    Hilliard, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,763 / 0 / -0
    I think Rosberg's point is something internal at the team. Like "Hammy will do what ever it takes" or "the team will issue orders" or "the team needs to issue orders".
     
  5. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Sep 30, 2011
    5,083
    1,762
    113
    Male
    Sales and Marketing manager
    Hilliard, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,763 / 0 / -0
    Overall I thought it was a great race.
     
  6. B.A.D.

    B.A.D. Club Coordinator

    Dec 6, 2009
    2,282
    931
    113
    Ratings:
    +934 / 0 / -0
    I would agree that it was another good race. I was excited to hear Nikki say before the race that they were going to let the drivers race each other, but that was short lived. Intentional or not, it was a dumb move by Nico (I would say the same thing if it had been Lewis).

    That is a shame for Magnussen. He had his hands full trying to hold off Alsono, Seb, and Jensen and looked pretty good doing it. Love that the youngsters aren't afraid to mix it up with the veterans.
     
  7. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    19,445
    10,057
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +11,698 / 2 / -0
    As I have already said, I think there was dumbness in both cockpits. Trying a low percentage pass on ones teammate & said teammate chopping back across the other in a retaliatory way. I was thinking 50-50, but reflecting a bit I'm thinking Nico 55% & Lewis 45%. Either way they add up to 100% contact. As fast as that happened not sure either could sus out the outcome of their actions. I don't believe Nico did what he did with the intent of slicing Lewis' tire. Good hard racing that didn't go well.

    Man I feel bad for Magnussen. So Alonso has to go wide. BFD there was tons of room there no harm no foul. Not like he ran him into a wall. He drove Alonso hard, just as Alonso would have driven him if the positions were reversed.
     
  8. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
    Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    8,767
    2,547
    113
    Bend, OR USA
    Ratings:
    +2,678 / 1 / -0
    I think the penalty for Magnussen was for blocking Alonso onto the grass as they went up the straight.
     
  9. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    19,445
    10,057
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +11,698 / 2 / -0
    I believe it was for an earlier outside pass attempt by Alonso. Magnussen opened his line & took space away from Alonso. When Alonso went off at Eau Rouge it was because he'd just lost half his front wing at La Source when he rammed into the back of Vettel's car.
     
  10. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 22, 2009
    5,641
    4,595
    113
    Male
    Overland Park, Ks
    Ratings:
    +5,187 / 1 / -0
    #1130 Minidave, Aug 25, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
    .......which did NOT result in a flat on Vettels car! :D

    Here's my take on Hammy v Rosbug.....


    I think they both (and all sports "celebrities") are just paid too damn much money - add to that the adulation of fans and the fawning of the general media over their every action and you get people who really think they can do anything they want.

    But to this action specifically - and completely disregarding any post race comments - here's how it looks to me. First of all, Rosberg deliberately running into the Hamster's car is ridiculous - because a puncture is usually unlikely (see Alonso whacking Vettel's tire later in the race) but wing damage is almost guaranteed - so advantage Hamilton if he does it - unlikely....but if Nico does it's almost guaranteed that he'll be making a long pit stop to replace his wing or suffering from reduced front end grip the rest of the race. Again, very unlikely as it's advantage Hammy.

    Second, what it looks like to me is that he tried an intimidating move that didn't work, found himself quickly on the wrong line for the next corner and tried to turn back to get back onto the right line so he could go after him again. He DID have a good run on Lewis going down into the turn and was more than half way up beside Lewis until they started braking, and he slowed more because he knew he didn't have the line, he then moved left to give Lewis the line then moved right to get behind him to try him again at the next opportunity. Nothing nefarious there at all......

    Just watching the video without any preconceived favoritism for either driver, that's how it looks to me. Not saying that's what happened, but to me that's why the FIA decided not to pursue it further....cause it looks like 10,000 identical incidents that have happened in F1 over lo these many years when someone misjudges and clips the driver in front with their wing - in ANY of those cases it could be said that the following driver could have avoided the contact but didn't.

    IOW, just one of them there racin deals......

    Time to move on.

    But if these two continue to act like petulant 2 year olds and keep banging on each other, they well could give Ricky Racer the title, and wouldn't THAT just be delicious? Cause I've not seen a driver more deserving of a title this year than RR - he drives clean, he drives hard and he races well, and had not his team screwed him on the first race this year, he would already be 18 points closer.

    One other comment. I find it interesting how involved people get with personalities of people they do not know, have never met and likely will never, and only know thru their carefully managed media persona. It's all just a show folks, but people are absolutely taking up arms over this......

    Stuff like this keeps the newspapers and magazines flying off the shelves, keeps race fans like us blogging away and stirs up interest for the show - nothing more.

    It's "Who Shot JR" all over again., and Bernie must be just rubbing his hands together in glee.....

    On to Monza....
     
  11. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    19,445
    10,057
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +11,698 / 2 / -0
    Oh how I would love to see Ricciardo win the championship. Slim chance, but it's nice to dream. :)
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Administrator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator

    Apr 23, 2009
    12,154
    3,164
    113
    Maryland, USA
    Ratings:
    +3,166 / 0 / -0
    I just hope the FIA don't decide to involve themselves. As someone pointed out elsewhere, in the Max Mosley era Rosberg's alleged post-race comments would probably have spawned a call to Merc from on high demanding they come explain themselves and a potential penalty for giving F1 a bad reputation or some such nonsense.

    Wolff: ‘No knee-jerk reaction’ at Mercedes (crash.net)
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Administrator
    Staff Member Articles Moderator

    Apr 23, 2009
    12,154
    3,164
    113
    Maryland, USA
    Ratings:
    +3,166 / 0 / -0
    Here's a strategy issue I hadn't thought of.

    Snipped from this article on crash.net:
     
  14. minirab

    minirab Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2009
    3,243
    777
    113
    Hagerstown, Md.
    Ratings:
    +851 / 0 / -0
    "The Beat Goes On" Vanilla Fudge
     
  15. mrntd

    mrntd Well-Known Member
    Supporting Member

    Sep 30, 2011
    5,083
    1,762
    113
    Male
    Sales and Marketing manager
    Hilliard, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +1,763 / 0 / -0
    It is a sad day when F1 thinks about strategic penalties.

    If the races start getting decided by grid spot penalties they are going to loose a lot of fans.
     
  16. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
    Lifetime Supporter

    Dec 22, 2009
    5,641
    4,595
    113
    Male
    Overland Park, Ks
    Ratings:
    +5,187 / 1 / -0
    Nah, it's no different than any of the other artificial penalties they've imposed over the years, if anything starting Lewis from the back meant they had more to talk about and if anything it spiced up the show a bit! Remember Bernie's idea of sprinklers at certain corners that could be turned on and off? Or reversing the grids to make it so some of the backmarkers could get more TV time and exposure for their sponsors? Why do you think Tilke's track layouts are so popular? Because they force the cars to slow down enough that you can easily read the sponsor's names on the cars......

    You all have to realize, it's far less of an actual race these days and more of a TV show.

    And look at what TV shows are most popular these days....so called reality shows - shows that are so staged and scripted that they bear little resemblance to reality as the rest of the world knows it. So it is with F1 today - it's "reality" racing! :D

    Watch it or don't, but do not be fooled into thinking that what you're seeing is real.....F1 has become the WWF of racing.

    That doesn't mean it's not fun or interesting - hell WWF makes a ton of money for it's rights holders and players and it has a huge audience - but it's not real wrestling, is it?
     
  17. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

    Jun 4, 2009
    19,445
    10,057
    113
    Retired old fart
    Hooterville Ohio USA
    Ratings:
    +11,698 / 2 / -0
    For me it is real racing, yes stupid rules they have to adhere to, but real racing all the same. Must suck for those who feel it isn't.

    Proud to say I've never watched a so called reality TV show, so I can't compare them.

    As far as WWF goes, NASCARP is there, & lost me as a fan years ago. I still watch their road course races, because I feel that is real racing. Just my .02.
     
  18. B.A.D.

    B.A.D. Club Coordinator

    Dec 6, 2009
    2,282
    931
    113
    Ratings:
    +934 / 0 / -0
    At the end of the day it is just entertainment, a way for people to set aside their real lives/problems/issues. I enjoy F1 partially because of the sheer extravagance of it (the worldwide locales, the thought of travelling from race to race on a private plane, the yacht parties at Monaco). NASCAR and Indy don't have that same appeal to me.

    I would totally agree that there are some calls/penalties that are sensationalized by the teams and sports media, but what sport doesn't have that? The on/off track drama helps give us good guys and bad guys. Take the Continental Tire Series when RSR was still running MINIs, they were our good guys and Nic Jonsson (sp?) was our bad guy.

    MiniDave, what do you consider real racing without the business aspect of F1, NASCAR, IRL...etc.?
     
  19. Zapski

    Zapski Well-Known Member

    May 4, 2011
    2,099
    889
    113
    Columbus, OH
    Ratings:
    +938 / 0 / -0
    Quick note - I loved this race, I think Nico drove very clumsily which is odd for him (except at Monaco - could be intentional, probably isn't) and that Lewis was making a rational call to try and save his engines and quit the race.

    Gratz to Danny and Valteri. It's always nice to see a Williams on the podium.
     
  20. minirab

    minirab Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2009
    3,243
    777
    113
    Hagerstown, Md.
    Ratings:
    +851 / 0 / -0
    I agree with Williams being in the run this year. Wonder if Patrick Head is
    bouncing off the walls this year? And it doesn't hurt that Frank's daughter
    is semi-running the show.
     

Share This Page