F1 Most liked posts in thread: 2017 - F1

Zapski · Aug 31, 2017

Weird.

Martin Brundle was speculating that it was something to do with the rain runoff grooves on the main straight at Spa, as both the trouble spots had those grooves right before the corners.

They run very shallow across the width of the track, but again it was just speculation.

When he asked the Pirelli representative during the Grid Walk, they said that the teams were able to make an adjustment to minimize the effect.

Judging by how the race went, it seems that adjustment worked, I thought.

Crashton · Aug 31, 2017

Yes it did work. I'm glad no one was suffering blown tires at high speed. Perez's was self inflicted. I'm guessing the teams raised air pressure in the tires. Hope they have no problems at Monza.

Steve · Aug 31, 2017

Brawn pushing to lose grid penalties, DRS (motorsport.com)

By: Jonathan Noble | 31 Aug 2017

Ross Brawn say Formula 1 chiefs are pushing for an end to grid penalties in grand prix racing, saying the system has got out of control and is a turn-off for fans.

Ever since F1 moved towards long-life components â€“ including engines and gearboxes that must last a set number of races â€“ it has always dealt with drivers who use too many components by moving them down the grid.

But situations like Stoffel Vandoorne's 65-place grid penalty in Spa, plus frequent gearbox change penalties for those battling at the front of the grid, has left Brawn adamant that a better solution needs to be found.

In an exclusive interview with Motorsport.com, Brawn reckoned it was important that F1 found a better way forward longer term.

"I hate the fact that we're having to affect the racing because of the technical issues," he said. "I know you can say if a car breaks down in a race that's a technical issue and you've affected the race, but I think the fans understand that.

"For a fan to stomach that his hero is on the back of the grid because he had to change the engine, that's not great sport.

"We've got to find a solution to that, either through a different form of penalty or to remove the penalty altogether and just live with the problem that it was trying to fix."

Brawn said that discussions had taken place with the FIA about the matter, but he acknowledged that it was not easy to come up with an answer.

However, he hoped something would be in place at the latest by the time new engine rules came in for 2021.

"We are working with the FIA now to try and see if there is a better solution in the future, and certainly hope with a new engine and new rules we'll definitely have a better solution," he said.

"Maybe we'll be able to implement a better solution before then, because it's a massively unpopular aspect of Formula 1 at the moment.

"One of the things that has been suggested is loss of constructors points. There could be other more discrete penalties.

"We used to have the token system for the engine, and that wasn't bad actually. It got a little bit complicated, but you could remove the tokens for a while.

"I think it needs a lateral think about. The grid penalties are very unpopular, and we should be finding a better solution."

DRS gone

As well as a tweak to grid penalties, Brawn says another long-term ambition for F1 is to lose DRS â€“ which divides opinion among fans.

"It's a compromise," said Brawn. "I think we have it, and what we should do is find a better solution. Because it is an enhancement to aid overtaking, and what we really want is the cars to be able to slipstream one another properly and overtake.

"So for me the solution, which we've now started a program on, is to develop the cars, design the cars, so that they can race each other in close proximity.

"A current Formula 1 car is totally optimised around running by itself. The teams, when they go in the wind tunnel and create their CFD programmes to develop the car, it's all done in isolation. So when you put another car around it, the car doesn't work as well.

"What we are working on is generating the capacity to look at cars that are racing each other in close proximity, and what sort of designs we need to enable that to happen.

"And I think when we do that, which is our ambition for 2021, then we will have cars that don't need DRS.
Click to expand...

Full article: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/grid-penalties-end-brawn-drs-947189/

minirab · Aug 31, 2017

He always did make sense.

Skidmarks · Aug 31, 2017

Remove the wings - that will put the emphasis on mechanical grip.

Sure you won't be breaking track records, and don't they want to slow the cars to some extent? It might provide some cost savings with fewer parts to manufacture and transport.

Would also allow the Force India cars to bump without debris almost clearing the catch fence, ok, maybe not.

Crashton · Aug 31, 2017

I think Perez is the new Maldanodo....

Steve · Sep 1, 2017

Interesting test rigs on the McLaren.

Zapski · Sep 1, 2017

Really not sure they should be focusing on Areo right now.....

Minidave · Sep 1, 2017

That's all they have.......

Rumor has them as McLaren Renault next season, and Toro Rosso Honda......

minirab · Sep 1, 2017

I heard McLaren KIA for later this year.

Steve · Sep 2, 2017

Steve · Sep 4, 2017

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQzdyBbzvjc"]Best of Team Radio | 2017 Italian Grand Prix - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MtObN6TP6U"]Ricciardo's Monza Masterclass | 2017 Italian Grand Prix - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX0SnXMDR1U"]Game of Thrones Stars Take a Lap of Monza in F1 Two-Seater - YouTube[/ame]

Steve · Sep 5, 2017

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFZSxX1yOj0"]Best Onboards | 2017 Italian Grand Prix - YouTube[/ame]

Steve · Sep 6, 2017

This sort of thing is usually just speculation.

Porsche confirms F1 interest after Italian GP visit (motorsport.com)

By: Adam Cooper | 5 Sep 2017

Porsche's financial chief has confirmed that the Stuttgart manufacturer is seriously considering a return to Formula 1 as an engine supplier under the proposed 2021 regulations.

Lutz Meschke, Deputy Chairman of the Executive Board and Member of the Board for Finances and IT, met with Ross Brawn and the sport's other bosses at the Italian Grand Prix.

Although it has not been directly involved with the sport since its disastrous relationship with the Footwork team in 1991, Porsche has retained a commercial involvement with the F1 organisation through the Supercup, paying for it to have a place on the support programme.

The F1 opportunity has opened up because Porsche stops its LMP1 project at the end of this season, having decided that it doesn't get sufficient return for what is in effect an F1-size budget, but without the income and sponsorship that the likes of Mercedes enjoy.

The company has already made a commitment to Formula E with a works-backed team from the 2019/20 season. However, it has also sent representatives to the series of recent meetings about the 2021 F1 engine regulations.

It has been encouraged by the direction that is being taken, with a move to cheaper and simpler technology than is currently used.

"F1 could be one of the right places," Meschke told Motorsport.com. "As you know Formula E is very important for us now, and F1 is always a good topic to think about. And I think we are in quite good discussions regarding the new engine."

Asked if the current plans for a twin-turbo V6 with less technology could attract Porsche to F1 he said: "Absolutely. We have to cut costs in F1, and it's a good way to reach this target."

Meschke also confirmed that "discussions are around being a supplier," and thus there are no plans to form a works team.

Among the obvious possible partners are Williams, which enjoyed a technical relationship with Porsche before selling its Hybrid Power division, and Red Bull, which has extensive connections with the VW Group.
Click to expand...

Full article: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/porsche-confirms-formula-1-interest-for-2021-949446/

Steve · Sep 6, 2017

What do you think, should Brawn be listening to Horner? He's making a lot of sense IMO but I'll bet Todt and the rest of the FIA bureaucrats will jamb their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen to the reasons as soon as they hear the base premise is scrapping the 3-engines idea.

Based on what we've seen so far, if they're going to cut it down to 3 engines next year they only way to make that work is to simplify the engines...and there's no way for the teams to do that as early as 2018. Even carrying over the current 4 engines rule into 2018 is a poor idea, as we're about to see as the teams push on into the remainder of the season.

They need to do some serious thinking, and soon. Time for Brawn to start earning his money.

Monza showed F1 must scrap three-engine limit plan - Horner (motorsport.com)

Jonathan Noble | 6 Sep 2017

Red Bull boss Christian Horner plans a fresh push to scrap rules limiting drivers to three engines per year from 2018, in the wake of the Italian Grand Prix grid penalty farce.

Formula 1 found itself being criticised by fans ahead of the Monza race when nine drivers were handed grid penalties for either engine or gearbox changes.

That situation has prompted fears that things could get even worse in the future as F1's rules get tougher, with each driver restricted to just three engines per campaign from the start of next year.

Earlier this year, Horner tried to get F1's Strategy Group to abandon that plan and keep the current four-engine limit in place â€“ but his efforts did not get enough support.

However, in the wake of the Monza situation, Horner says he will raise the matter again when F1's Strategy Group meets in the next few weeks.

He thinks it should be a priority for F1 chiefs to change things to better cope with the ever complicated V6 turbo hybrids.

"I think this engine has done nothing positive for Formula 1 since it was introduced," said Horner, who has long been critical of the turbo engine rules that came in for 2014.

"What concerns me is that we are now going to three engines for next year with more races. And to me, that should be number one of the agenda at the next Strategy Group meeting.

"I tried to get it changed at an earlier meeting in the year, but there was no support for it. I would hope that there would now be a different outcome, with teams staring down the barrel of further penalties between now and the end of the year."

New penalties

As well as scrapping the move to go down to three engines, Horner believes that serious thought needs to be given to a new system for grid penalties, with the current structure unpopular with those in the sport as well as fans.

"It is hard enough for us to understand," he said. "Even going to the grid, we were trying to work out if we were going to be 12th or 13th, because [Sergio] Perez had picked up a penalty but we didn't know if he had picked it up before or after somebody. So it is too confusing.

"I think there needs to be a serious look at to see whether there is a better way of penalising a manufacturer or an entrant, constructor, as opposed to messing around with the grid, because I think it will only get worse. It will be a shame to see this championship decided on grid penalties."

False economy

The idea to reduce the number of engines used per season was originally intended as a way to help reduce costs.

However, manufacturers are now finding that delivering long-life components â€“ and proofing them on dynos â€“ is actually not turning out to be any cheaper.

Horner has gone as far as suggesting that F1 may be better off actually allowing more engines to be used.

"The whole purpose of this limitation in engines was also cost saving, but of course it is not saving the costs," he said. "The engines are going on a world tour anyway, they are being used and you are just incurring penalties as a result.

"Perhaps we need to get back to an equitable balance â€“ perhaps five engines is the right number rather than four going to three."
Click to expand...

Nathan · Sep 6, 2017

Where is Horner coming from with all this?

Potentiality owning the Aston Martin Team with Adrian Newey???

Lot's o' looking at the big long term picture here.

Read this please https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/09/06/pure-speculation/

beken · Sep 7, 2017

Steve said: ↑

....

They need to do some serious thinking, and soon. Time for Brawn to start earning his money.

Monza showed F1 must scrap three-engine limit plan - Horner (motorsport.com)
Click to expand...

Actually, the expense of an F1 engine is in the development of it. The fewer the actual physical engines are made, the more expensive the engine, as it has fewer units to distribute the cost across.

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing, cost no object. Unfortunately, in order to make money, it needs to level the spending playing field in order to be competitive.

How about for engines, it needs to be homologated with production cars. Certain key parts, such as the engine block, fuel systems, turbo chargers need to be available in quantity for production street cars (say minimum 200 units) ? How they develop the engines internally after that is up the the individual race teams.

I think by simply limiting teams to the number of engines, they've simply made the cost per unit more expensive.

Steve · Sep 7, 2017

beken said: ↑

Actually, the expense of an F1 engine is in the development of it.

...

I think by simply limiting teams to the number of engines, they've simply made the cost per unit more expensive.
Click to expand...

Yup, and it will only get worse when they drop the limit from 4 "power units" this year to 3 for 2018. Others have explained it much better and in far more detail than Horner did but he scratched the surface under False Economy (above).

Steve · Sep 7, 2017

In the Tour de France the rider leading the time sheets wears a yellow jersey. Jean Todt thinks F1 should have that in 2018...the driver leading the driver's championship gets a yellow halo.....

minirab · Sep 8, 2017

Why doesn't he just go away. Never did like him.

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