Brakes Idea 1st Gen Most liked posts in thread: A possible different bigger brake idea and, Meth Injection and more

[QUOTE="Dave.0, post: 406585, member: 61"]Meth will not help the SC temps at all.

Meth is for cooling the fuel and intake temps and it keeps everything very clean inside the motor. That’s also why oil gets dirty faster and requires more frequent oil changes no matter what oil you choose. I use Meth for Cooling, Power (tuned for extra octane) and keeping everything clean.

The M45 with a 15,17 or 19 % pulley is way passed the designed use and temps of the SC. It all comes down to how fast do you want to spin your SC and shorten it’s lifespan. Spinning the SC past 15 & !7% will cause it to heat up more meaning you are pumping hot air not cool compressed air. You have to find the balance that works for you and your intended use of the car.

Mixing water and meth has no real benefit in the R53 W11 motor at all but will help the later Direct Ingection motors with carbon buildup.[/QUOTE]

I would think the atomizing affect of the nozzle on any liquid, be it water or methanol, into an airflow would result in the airflow temperature being reduced.

 

Correct and I do not think I ever said it did. The injection point is after the supercharger and the intercooler. This thread has evolved into discussing the impact of the MI and the impact of increased rotation of the supercharger that has a direct correlation with the rotation of the water pump. MI is a method to mitigate intake temperatures, boost octane of the fuel mixture and if desired modify the timing to advance spark to gain more power.

My intent has been to utilize MI in a manner so that when I install a smaller pulley on the supercharger the additional heat created by the increased rotation of the supercharger via the smaller pulley is mitigated. I do not plan on using MI to change the tuning/timing to take advantage of either additional octane/energy from the methanol or the decreased intake temperatures produced by either atomizing of a straight methanol injection or a mix of water and methanol.

 

The other aspect that needs to discussed in this thread is whether the injectors need to increase in size. I already have RMW 450's and would contact Jan with on my thoughts. When I changed my crank pulley to the ATI 2% overdrive I contacted him to verify the impacts on the tune he gave me to install after I put his Dominator Cam and the 450's in.

I am using this and other forums as a sounding board to voice my thoughts and attempt to obtain differing thoughts to consider.

That it has done.

 

The crazy thing about the Heaton as Dave.0 likes to call it, is what is the magic point where it is no longer efficient? Eaton already says its 16,000 but as I noted all the JCWs ever built and anybody with an aftermarket pulley are operating at values that exceed the value Eaton says not to operate at. Then you throw in the crazy revs that Dave.0 has and I just scratch my head.

What is also interesting is that with all the talk on cavitation of the pump I have not found anybody that says it happened to them.

 

Ahhhhhhh, actually I started the thread to talk about different brake options. Good to know that I can still make myself look stupid without anybody helping

 

Yes he probably could but then I would no longer have a MINI but rather a MAXI . . . . .

 

Here are some Eaton Charts and then a spreadsheet that I prepared.

The spreadsheet reflects where there are any issues with possible excessive supercharger rpms. I have not seen anything from Eaton but there are posts on the web noting that Eaton stated their M45 was rated for a maximum 16,000 revolutions. BMW/MINI decided to install a smaller pulley on the JCW that exceeds the Eaton "line in the sand." One would think there would have been a major class action lawsuit had the JCW superchargers suffered catastrophic failures and that BMW/MINI would have considered this when they released the option. With hindsight, one can see that the superchargers did not fail nor were there any waterpump cavitation issues. I am also not aware of any major issues with the 15% pulley have any major issues.

In the spreadsheet where a specific pulley exceeds the 16,000 value the cell is highlighted in yellow. Of greater importance to me is that the 19% pulley at 6500 engine rpms is less than the JCW at redline. I have not seen a representation such as this on any forum. This does not mean it does not exist but most of what I found was basically "I heard you should not do this."

 

and as far as getting it, the sentence in question was "Meth will not help the SC temps at all." The matter of whether this pertained to heat within the SC itself or in the air stream that was heated from passing through the SC was not indicated so IMO one could logically argue that there was no error addressing the cooling effect of MI regardless of whether the MI mix was 100% meth or a 70% water/30% meth.

Let's ask the Mistress which response she likes more as I could use another Gen1 in my garage . . . . . . .

 

First, anytime a liquid is atomized into an air stream a cooling affect is created. Next, if the liquid was injected before the supercharger it would help cool the supercharger for the same reason (I am not suggesting this be done merely pointing out the laws of physics). Methanol injection will lower the intake air temperature that has been heated by the compression of the supercharger. This is confirmed by many tests and the Mistress appears to benefit from a 10 - 20 degree decrease according to your previous posts.

On the matter of a smaller pulley and the son of John Cooper's involvement, Michael, I just cannot believe that an organization the size of BMW would allow an individual with no status within the organization to dictate what product was going to be used. The Tritec was developed through a joint effort of the Rover Group, that was owned by BMW at that time, and Chrysler that was owned by Daimler Benz. The lead Chrysler designer for the engine sometimes posts over on the BBB site. I don't know if he addressed the selection of the supercharger. To me there would have been a process for the selection of a means to increase the performance of the engine albeit forced induction or increased compression. Then once the manner was agreed upon the specifics for the design would have again been discussed and agreed on. IMO high level management was involved in the supercharger process and would have had testing data and recommendations for the final pulley ratio that was used.

Interesting on the Dealer supercharger matter. It is logical to me that BMW would not want the pulley to be removed at the Dealer but rather have the supercharger with the pulley installed at the manufacturing point be installed. In this manner BMW would be able to control the cost and more importantly reap more profit.

 

This is just the issue that you find when doing any type of research on the matter, somebody's opinion with no data to back it up. There are numerous MINIs out there with smaller pulleys producing spin rates that exceed what some say (ah yes what somebody says) Eaton stated relative to a 16,000 limit. Well if they said that, it is obviously incorrect as there a thousands of MINIs out there relative to Gen1 JCWs that exceed the value. Nobody has showed any data on at which point the heat created predetonation can no longer be addressed by heat mitigation or by spark retardation that I am aware of.

Fact # 1 is that a 19% pulley will spin the supercharger at a rate, 6550, that is the same as the JCW cutout redline of 6,950. So the question is within the next 400 engine rpms will the supercharger be at a point where the heat produced causes significant spark retardation that cannot be addressed by MI and is there data reflecting such?

Fact # 2 is that the inclusion of atomized liquid into the supercharger, regardless of the whether the impact is severe enough to cause failure, will cool the supercharger.

Fact # 3 is that regardless what type of engine management system one has it cannot change the law of physics or thermal dynamics.

 

Why it is of course the BIG BAD BOGYMAN aka NAM.

 

Oh and I am waiting on the RMW basher to produce some "data." I even got to throw MA into the mix. This is big reason I come over here is that I can get some very thoughtful responses that I can respond to while at the same time prodding the tiger.



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