Brakes Idea 1st Gen A possible different bigger brake idea and, Meth Injection and more

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by Whine not Walnuts, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. wmwny

    wmwny Well-Known Member

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    WHAT??? You will be "upgrading to Brembos soon"???? OMG...does that mean you are currently using those God-awful Wilwoods?
     
  2. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    No not at all. I have an 07 52 with the factory JCW kit that includes the LSD. Add some Koni Coilovers with lowering springs, stiffer rear sway bar, front camber plates, 4-2-1 header, RMW Dominator Cam/450 injector/Tune and a Way ATI 2% overdrive crank pulley. As my signature over on NAM says, "mods/upgrades, ahhh yes its more than just a cute little car." Lets just say I do some "spirited" driving on the twisties.

    I did this as there are those out there that have a MINI, want to do some mods but don't detail cars on the weekend, yes had to get Dave.0 into this, and are looking for budget mods. This appears to fit.

    Actually in discussions know with Jan over at RMW about a revolutionary new modification that will produce some good torque values You have to visit the ex Big Bad Boogeyman site to read about. Posts #63 and #65.

    I am already thinking about all the ways I am going to spend the money . . . . . .

    https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/tires-wheels-and-brakes/328301-bigger-brake-options-gen1-and-2-a-3.html#post4398646
     
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  3. myles2go

    myles2go Active Member

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    I agree with Jan, "I can get stock brakes with mods to work as good as Wilwoods........not sure what all the extra wasted brain power is all about here"!
    Your stock brakes with good pads will work as good as or better than the Wilwoods setup you are suggesting.
     
  4. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    Quite simple for the same reason you upgraded to Gen2 Brembo for your Gen1, the itch.
     
  5. fishmonger

    fishmonger Well-Known Member

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    I have Wilwood on one car, stock on the other two. One with Akebono pads and stainless lines. Difference? Wilwood car has a much better feel, but it gets hot like the others when driving in the mountains with weight in the car. I had some pretty significant fade once in Colorado. Since then, I've pretty much treated those brakes like they are stock and avoid to push it. Came with the car, look bling, easy to service and are a bit lighter than stock, so I am ok with the brakes. Would not buy another set.

    I may do R56 brakes on one of the other cars, but TSW brakes for my current Wilwood car may move the Wilwoods to that ride. TSW seems to be less bling but more bang. Brembo is far too expensive for what you're getting. There' sa reason more IMSA cars run on AP Racing than Brembo... only those who have direct factory links with that brand are running them on the race track. There seems to be no performance difference between AP and Brembo. And yes, never seen a Wilwood car in any racing series of note.
     
  6. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    What size pads you have on the Wilwoods, 6's or 8's?
     
  7. fishmonger

    fishmonger Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea. had to look it up:
    padtype=7816
    6.36 square inch

    They are the ones that fit. 11.75 rotors with the Dynapro calipers. Pretty much the standard kit that fits any size wheel. They are equipped with the cheaper rotors, too. Last year I replaced those with the cheaper version again, because the next step up with different shaped vanes is 3x the price and I doubt there'll be much of a difference. Nothing like the massively thicker TSW rotors would give me.in terms or heat management. But, for normal driving, they are fine. The pads that came wiht the car when I got it were extremely aggressive - sounded like sand was on the rotors every time I stopped. No surprise the rotors were below spec when I checked.

    [​IMG]

    it's this kit minus the curved vane and slotted fancy rotor feature. Rest identical
    https://www.wilwood.com/brakekits/BrakeKitsProdFront?itemno=140-8740
     
  8. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    I have posts in two different places and don't remember what I said where, but I did note once that I thought 7812/16 that are around 6" (16 is thicker but same surface area) would heat up quicker and therefore probably fade quicker.

    I have looked at thicker calipers but IMO the 1.25 that Way and others may have will push the wheels out to the point that if you are lowered they will start to rub. I will ask Way over on NAM his thoughts.
     
  9. wmwny

    wmwny Well-Known Member

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    Way can always come back to M/A, now that NAM and M/A are "friends" again.
     
  10. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    I still don't understand all the need for bigger brakes on street driven cars. I've done plenty of track days in my previous 2003 JCW and in my current 09 Cooper S and I've never had brake fade problems - as long as I had good clean fresh brake fluid. What are you guys doing that you're getting brake fade on the street?
     
  11. fishmonger

    fishmonger Well-Known Member

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    exit I70 on a 8% downhill grade from 75mph to a stop sign, two people and lots of stuff in the car. It just got soft. Likely aged Brembo fluid to blame. Haven't been able to repeat it.
     
  12. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    I for one do not want Way back ? He has his place over on the NAM and should stay there.

    Also he is cheap and will not pay vendor fees here.
     
  13. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    I guess that's my point, regular fluid changes and you don't need to spend hundreds of dollars on brake parts. It's clearly different if you're going to track the car regularly......
     
  14. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    One thing everyone is missing is the color of the caliper. As most of you know red is the fastest color but what most don’t know it also has the highest clamping pressure. So they must be red.
     
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  15. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    Found some interesting stuff on a Chevy Cobalt Brembo and have posted the below over on NAM. I also made a post on a Cobalt forum to see if they could help out with some dimensions that I have a hard time trying to find.

    I have been digging into Chevy Cobalt Brembos that I mentioned earlier. They appear to be very similar to the Gen2 JCW units. Both have four 1.5" pistons that work out to the same approximate value of the Gen1 JCW/R56s. The Gen2 has a pad of approximately 14.24 square inches (121 x 76 x 14 mm) whereas the Cobalt is just a little smaller at 13.73 (125 x 71 x 15 mm). Both are mated to 316 mm rotors but whereas the JCW is 22 mm thick the Cobalt is 26 mm. What is really interesting on the Cobalts is that you can get remanufactured for around $120 that includes a core charge. You can get autopart type ceramic pads for less than $40.00. I need to verify the fluid inlet thread but I am thinking the MINI hoses might work. You would need to get the pins that hold the pads in.

    For me the biggest question is whether the Cobalt would work with the 22mm MINI rotor. I do not know what the total piston extension is but would think that 2 mm is not going to kill the deal. I have not been able to find information on the hub connection spacing as well.
     
  16. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Like where you are going here... I'm speaking out of turn in the sense I have no research or suggestions. I wonder if we look at other hot rod cars (SS which is a holden, Subaru WRX, R32.. etc) brakes will those work. That could be a pretty inexpensive alternative. Wonder if we could figure out a "brake" crossover chart similar to how we had Wheel fitment charts in the past.. hmm..
     
  17. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    I have not been able to find too much technical stuff on Brembo. Nothing that will cross reference a MINI or a Chevy part number to their system. Everything I found was basically forum based. Would think the Suburu stuff might work but they may be 1.25" rotors and on CL when you see anything with WRX the prices go way up. Nissan has the Sentra SE-R Spec V but have not done research on them.

    I ordered a kit for the Cobalt calipers. I did a photo overlay so I knew they were very close in size and then I found a Saturn Sky forum post where the guy made some drawings up. The attachment center to center is 4 15/16" whereas the MINI is 4 3/4". There are other posts here about having to rework the hole by 2 mm, perhaps for the GP2/135i calipers, so I have a little filing to do. Will make the hole oblong by less than an 1/8" so there will there be no sideways movement and as the hole extension will be upwards/downwards, the caliper will not be able to slide up or down. Will mate them up to the Gen2 JCW sized 316 mm rotors. I tried to order remanufactured units but every place I found them, they were out of stock.

    I will take pictures through the process and post them. If everything goes as planned will then sell my JCW/R56 calipers that have EBC Yellows and Stop Tech slotted rotors. The pads and rotors have less than 5,000 miles on them.

    Brembo 2.jpg
     
  18. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    With some brackets or some filing, can probably make allot of other calipers work. I did find a GM caliper comparison chart on piston sizes and any Brembo type they have has piston areas in the 8 square inch neighborhood that is double the size of the JCW/Cobalts of 3.5. I would not want to try maintaining pressure on those with the Gen1 master cylinder system.
     
  19. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    So I have my GP2 330 x 26 rotors installed with the Chevy Cobalt SS Brembo Calipers providing the friction. To work need to have at least 15" of inside the wheel diameter along with grinding 1/16" from the hub knuckles as the Cobalt's have a 4 7/8" center vs the MINI's 4 3/4". With my wheels I also had to go with 5 mm offsets.

    The essentials are: Two SS Cobalt Calipers + $356, one caliper pin kit + $19, two rotors + $78, brake pads + $19 (Amazon had EBC Reds on sale), four caliper bolts + $10, two banjo bolts + $10, copper crush washers + $5, and caliper shims + $15 = $512.

    The last picture is where I filed/ground out the existing hub knuckles .

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  20. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    This should also work for a Gen2. The Gen2 JCW pad would have 2 1/4" of pad surface on a 316x22 rotor where this option has a pad with 2 1/8" of pad surface on a 330x26 rotor. The heat mitigation should be better than both the Gen1 JCW/R56 and the Gen2 JCW.

    I also made up some washers that have a tab to compensate for some of the material I filed out. If you look at the last picture in the above post you will notice that I did not enlarge the hole on a vertical axis but rather diagonally the pull the caliper back in so the pads were not right at the edge of the rotor.

    Not a bad option for around $500.

    12.JPG 13.JPG
     
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