Brakes Idea 1st Gen A possible different bigger brake idea and, Meth Injection and more

Discussion in '1st Generation: 2002–06 R50, R53 & 2004–08 R52' started by Whine not Walnuts, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Sully

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    Ok - reading in my phone. So if I read this correct, you filed essentially the top and bottom at an anlge. Expanding the mounting points, pushing the pad more to the center of the rotor, But also providing some material below the bolt (so it’s not floating). In my mind I wonder if when you are stopping, wouldn’t that mean the lower bolt is carrying the majority of the load? Granted there is “clamping” capacity and rotational force.. I’ll have to pull out my old engineering books.. lol.

    Assuming that is not an issue, this does seem like a pretty good “cheap” alternative. Have you driven with them yet?
     
  2. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    The MINI is a 4 3/4" bolt spacing whereas the Cobalt is 4 7/8". It is logical to assume the forward force of the wheel is going to make the caliper want to move back toward the center of the wheel on the bottom attachment point and forward on the top point. The bottom bolt cannot move inwards as it is held in place by the Knuckle. The top bolt will want to move towards the front but the only way that it can is to either move down and then over, which would appear to be impossible as the caliper material would maintain the 4 7/8" spacing or deform. The tab of the washer that I made will also create a shim that keeps the bolt from moving down.

    I made up a drawing of how this is suppose to work. Have to remember this is not for a car that is going to run the 24 Hours of Le Mans, reaching triple digit speeds that must be shed in order to navigate corners. This is low cost option for a Track Wannabee that never sees the track except as a bystander.

    Yes I would love to have an engineer run some calculations on this. I just do not see the force being sufficient enough to deform the high strength bolt.

    Hub.jpg
     
  3. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    I made up some different oblong hole shims. The round washer type would rotate when torquing the bolts down. I took some electrical junction box covers and my Whitney Punch. By no means 3-d printed but worked quite well.

    21.JPG 22.JPG 24.JPG 25.JPG 26.JPG
     
  4. Sully

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    Looking good - Have you driven with them on yet?
     
  5. Dave.0

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    FYI - you have your pad pins in backwards. They go in from the back not the front.

    Anyone could walk by and pull the pins out. lol
     
  6. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    #46 Whine not Walnuts, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
    When I was trying centering methods I did have the pins in ass backwards. Actually if you put the pins in from the front, it would be impossible to pull them out as they recede within the holes where when placing from the back somebody with a hammer and punch could push them back quite easily when the car was parked.

    What are you going to be putting on?
     
  7. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    No mountain runs yet but it they are working quite well.

    With the money I saved on this Rube Goldberg set up, Goldberg was a very smart man, I am going to get a meth injection kit and put on a 17% pulley. Not going to "tune for meth" but rather use it to mitigate the extra heat from the 17.
     
  8. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    I have a 2% overdrive already in place but with Jan's cam, injectors and tune along with a 421 header I am not pushing high boost values. The 17 should provide a nice kick and the meth will help keep the engine cooler.

    And don't worry, I don't plan on using window washer . . . . . .
     
  9. Sully

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    Sounds like it’s working out then.... I’ll be interested in your thoughts after a mountain run. Speaking of that.. I need to jump back over to the other thread for the back of the dragon.. :)
     
  10. Dave.0

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    Are you saying I can try and pull the pins out with vise-grips ? Lol

    I will be installing a new set of Brembo’s, new DT SS lines, new StopTech slotted rotors and G-lock pads.

    No silly drilled rotors for me either. Looks like you now have a nice setup.
     
  11. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    Even the famous Dave.0 would not be able to pull the pins out with a vise-grip as the head is recessed once you have them driven/set. You will see when you start detailing the inside/backside of the caliper . . . . . . .
     
  12. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    And my money is on that he does . . . . .

    I do the calipers and the wheel about once every two months.
     
  13. Dave.0

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    They are fully detailed already and look awesome. I know what you are talking about from the backside of the caliber.

    Mine are also Gyeon ceramic coated a few times so dust rinses right off.
     
  14. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    If I read that right a 17% pulley and 2% overdrive will be 19% effectively. Don't do that 17 is the most you want. I have read that 19% is starting to reach a point of diminishing returns due to heat. Also it spins the water pump to fast.
     
  15. Dave.0

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    Agree 15% and a 2% crack ok.

    A 17% and 2% crank = too much heat and killing your water pump on the back end of the SC.

    I honestly don’t understand why people run anything other than the stock crank damper size. “ATI”
     
  16. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    Lots of really smart people here but:

    1.) Yes 17 plus 2 is 19 but those values are associated with a standard S head that I do no have. The flow rate on the S is about 106 cfm where the JCW is about 126 cfm so IMO if one put the 17+2 on an S and on a JCW, the JCW boost value would be lower as there is more air going through the system.
    2.) I also have a RMW Dominator Cam that is keeping valves open longer that allows more air through the system thereby reducing boost.
    3.) With Meth Injection the intake temperatures are reduced.
    4.) On the effect of smaller pulley sizes and increased revolutions for the AC compressor, the alternator and the water pump (through the supercharger), a similar effect is created when the rev limiter/redline is increased. If we use 9% as a increasing factor, at 3000 engine RPM the various parts driven by the belt will see 3270 rpm and at 6800 the result would be 7412. I do not track so therefore running at redline does not occur that much nor at a constant. I also think that there is a large safety factor engineered into the parts and the increased spin is not exceeding that value.

    Now I need no help looking stupid as I can do that by myself everyday but what above is not logical? I have read where the ECU can only handle about 18 psi of boost but I am thinking that I will not be at that value with the head, the cam and a highflow cat.
     
  17. Dave.0

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    For a daily you may be ok for now but you are stressing a lot of parts attached to that belt.

    As for the JCW Head, it is really not that special (Sorry). If you want the best, buy the RMS BVH.
     
  18. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    The head flow rates are based upon Jan's data.

    On the stress, I thought I read someplace where your redline was 8,000. I don't know about how the rest of your car is set up; you have an electric water pump, is your alternator pulley larger to compensate for the increased revs?

    The biggest question is how are the components designed; average RPMs or Redline RPMs? I would think, and yes I may be falling on my face, the design is based on the Redline and not the average.

    The best about all of this is that the subject was probably debated years ago and there is concrete evidence that merely needs to be found again. I can tell from reading 2003 posts that a 17% pulley was like Columbus sailing over the edge of the flat earth. All sorts of cavitation quotes from years back but it appears that has gone by the wayside.
     
  19. Whine not Walnuts

    Whine not Walnuts Active Member

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    Jan's big head is something like 185 cfm but even the JCW head flow is 18% better than the S.

    If there is a major concern on the RPM and as the sweet spot is Max HP/Max Torque, the Redline could be decreased to compensate and the sweet spot is not touched,
     
  20. MCS02

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    #60 MCS02, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    WnW your right this was looked at years ago. Web had done a lot of work on it and had a great article showing why not to use 19%. I believe he even saw a slightly higher oil temp. He hasn't been around for a long time but I will see if I can find the artical for you. Have you asked Jan what he thinks of this set up?
    What you said makes sense.
     

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