Interior 1st Gen Adjusting Pedals

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by cct1, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Is there any way to even slightly adjust the brake pedal (or gas pedal)?

    I'd like to raise the brake pedal (or lower the gas pedal) just a smidgeon for downshifting at the track purposes...

    Man, a pedal box would be nice too...
     
  2. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    Have you thought about an aftermarket pedal on the brake only? That would give it a bit more height.
     
  3. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Did that, with ultimate pedals. I'd like a little more though. My brake pedal takes a bit to engage--had it checked out at two different places, they don't feel it's too far off--it's fine around town, but on the track, it would match up better if it was just a little higher. I could add another ultimate pedal on top to stack it higher.
     
  4. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    What about a small spacer between the Ultimate Pedal and the base?
     
  5. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    I though about that, but I don't know how stable it would be--I've got the Ferrari pedals on there, so they're pretty large; the spacer would have to follow the funky curve of the pedal. If the pedals aren't adjustable, I think I'll just throw another pedal on top. It'll be more expensive, but at least it'll be rock solid stable.

    I was hoping there was SOME adjustment, doesn't look like there is. Oh well, thanks for the input!
     
  6. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    I would imagine that you are asking this because you are trying to heel/toe with the left half of your foot on the brake and the right half hitting the gas?

    If so, I would strongly encourage you to start heel/toeing with the ball of your foot on the brake and your actual heel blipping the gas. I have seen several people gas-brake going into a corner because they are using this method and their brake pedal travel increases ever so slightly, to that the brake is now lower than the gas.

    I used to use the left half right half method, but switched over to the actual heel/toe method and have been much happier. I have found the key to this method is to get your knee in-line with the brake. If you have your leg at an angle it is very difficult to heel/toe correctly.
     
  7. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    FYI, I also have the Ferrari pedals from ultimate pedals.
     
  8. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    Are you running all 3 or 4 pedals?

    Have you tried just the brake pedal?
     
  9. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    I may go back to trying that, I agree it's a better method on the track. But the problem is my right ankle is shot--blew out all the ligaments on both sides in rec league basketball about 8 years ago, and the heel stab is difficult. I can roll my foot just fine, but getting the heel over is tough, especially since I lost a little bit of proprioception from the injury...

    For most of the day, using the ball of my foot on the brake, and outside on the throttle works just fine--but toward the end of the day, when the brake pedal is going down a little further, it's a problem--as you say, brake is going down below the gas pedal, and it's tough to blip the throttle when this happens--if it goes too low, it's impossible.


    May be time to try and work through that though. See what I can do with it this weekend out in the country.
     
  10. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    I am a fairly tall driver (6'5") so this was not super easy for me to accomplish, but it is really in positioning. First off, I have a smaller sparco wheel, this allows me to place my legs 100% under the steering wheel. Without this I would not be able to heel/toe as I have described. The second thing that is key to keep from twisting you ankle is the position of your leg when you are braking. It is kind of hard to describe, but in terms of left to right positioning, if you place your right knee directly over the brake pedal, it will make getting to the brake with your heel much easier. This left to right positioning is where having a smaller steering wheel helps.

    The reason I caution against using the side to side method (other than it not working in all cars you might be driving), is that when you have half of your foot hanging over on the gas side of the pedal, if your brake pedal travel increases, you could very easily inadvertently apply the gas. This can rapidly lead to crashing into some armco or at the least a nasty off.

    I used to have a lot of problems with my brakes, so this actually came close to biting me a couple of times.

    Good luck!
     
  11. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Great day at Blackhawk--got my lap times down to 1:27, which blew me away--it's a 2 second improvement. Ran with the Northwoods Shelby club--great group, highly recommend them if anyone by chance wants to run with them in the Midwest. First time I've ran with them, but they're definitely on my short list.

    Anyway, I worked on threshold braking out in the country using a true heel toe. The main reason I couldn't do it before turned out to be the steering wheel--after your post above awhile back, I figured I'd at least try one more time to switch my downshifting. I had the wheel fairly low, which I never really thought about before your post above, moved it up to the highest position, and now it's definitely doable. At Blackhawk, it's a two gear track for me (third and fourth), so it was kind of a good place to try it out after working the kinks out on the backroads--and I have to admit, it's MUCH better. It's still a work in progress--still plenty of room to improve, but my braking is so much better--I can get the downshift in so much earlier than by rolling my foot, despite braking later and harder, and everything is much more consistent. It's what got my times down, and the good news is there's still more time to be had with more seat time.

    The pads looked great at the end of the day--a little bit wedged, but not bad, despite running faster. I think I was killing the pads and fluid with the "roll the foot" method--I was braking longer, but not as hard, heating things up more than they probably needed to be, not to mention getting the downshift in WAY late, as I had to be coming off the brake to match the pedals, whereas with a true heel toe, it's not an issue--there's much more of a margin where you can blip the throttle during the beginning or middle of threshold braking rather than toward the end. Getting the downshift done earlier made things indescribably easier; it's so much easier to consistently hit turn in and apexes at the right speed, getting the downshift in earlier made a huge difference.

    Only downside is its hard to practice anywhere but at the track--for me at least, I really have to have the brake pedal down a ways before I can blip the throttle. But it's easier to rev match this way--I can get a nice consistent blip with the heel stab, much more reliable than the roll method, and with time I expect it'll only get better.

    Can't wait for Road America, more downshifting there, I'll probably take it slower than usual to get it nice and smooth.
     
  12. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    I am glad this method is working for you. The best way to get the steering wheel in the correct position is with an aftermarket wheel. This allows you to do several things, 1. run a smaller wheel, 2. run a flat bottom wheel and 3. place the wheel closer to you so that the wheel is more in inline with you thighs rather than your knees.

    The best thing about learning to heel/toe this way it that it is very easily transferred to different vehicles. I routinely drive a MINI, BMW E36 as well as a Spec Miata. I can use the exact same technique on all three of these cars.
     
  13. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Great improvement, feels so good when another step in the learning curve starts coming together! Makes you want to get back to the track just that much more!!! :)
     
  14. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Down the road I may switch steering wheels. I'm 5'11", and with the wheel up, I just barely clear it with my foot/leg in line with the brake pedal (I also moved the seat back a smidgeon) Eventually it would be nice to get the wheel a little closer without worrying about hitting it, and get back to my original seat position. For now though, the tradeoff in a not quite ideal seat position is worth the improvement in braking and downshifting.

    Thing is, I was fairly quick before at Blackhawk, and consistently have taken time off laps each time out there, but today was a pretty dramatic leap.
     
  15. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Ummm I'm 6' and don't have a problem. What is your seat position? For me I have the seat as far down to the floor as it can go, seat back more upright and with my shoulders back at the seat and my.arm extended straight my wrist lays directly on top of the wheel. Play around with it a little, when I first got the mini I had the seat back tilted too much which then I had to slide the seat forward to much to get my arm distance right. Seat back up gives more leg room. 2 cents
     
  16. Justa Jim

    Justa Jim Well-Known Member
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    Question. I have been playing with heel and toe and find that sometimes when I bump the gas with my heel I tend to hit the break harder at the same time getting a jerkey action. Is this just something that requires practice or is their something I'm doing wrong?

    Jim
     
  17. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Practice. Think heel and toe will always be a work in progress but try getting used to using just the ball of your right foot to brake and roll your foot to rev match down shifts all the time. The harder you press the peddle the more the roll will naturally go to the heel. Do it all the time not just when your at the track. When I've done it the best I wasn't thinking about it...... 2 cents
     
  18. Justa Jim

    Justa Jim Well-Known Member
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    I'll keep working on it.

    Jim
     
  19. cct1

    cct1 Well-Known Member
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    Only advice I'd give is it's actually easier to do smoothly at or near threshold than if the pedal is only part ways down. The rolling method made it easier to switch to the full heel method, but I practiced the true heel method, with the car turned on in neutral first, then took it out into the country, then the track. It's pretty hard to practice it if you're braking lightly. Stick with it; it's definitely a better and safer way to brake and downshift on the track, as btwdriver alluded to earlier in the thread.

    I use the roll still under relatively light braking; it's better suited for this as the pedal isn't as far down (at least the way my pedals are set up). The heel stab works much better on the track though. And the farther the brake pedal is down, the easier it is to do the throttle blip seamlessly. On the track, it was obvious right away how much smoother it is. Around town, it would take some finesse, with the brake pedal only lightly pressed.

    As for seat position, everyone's body is different--I know how to position the seat for the track to get the proper arm length, and my seat is to the floor. I'm a big 5'11 to 6'0 (not fat, but very big thighs), so I don't have a lot of clearance underneath the wheel. Seat is already pretty much straight up. Arm length is ok, but I'd like the seat a little closer--probably because of the wheel now being higher. If I could get the wheel back to where it was, I'd be back to where I started. It's really not a big deal; I can still dangle my wrists over the steering wheel, and engage all the pedals properly, it's just a different angle. Eventually I'm going to put in different seats; we'll see.
     
  20. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I may have to switch methods. Good thread - thought provoking. I've definitely been in the same situation on the track with pedal distance increasing, and I caught myself on brake and gas. I had actually started to double clutch to add a margin of safety in case I gassed at the wrong time, but this sounds like a better fix. (Yes, I still gas at the wrong time, but usually I blame it on the dog).

    As far as seat distance, I like, and I've heard the same from several good instructors, to have my wrists break at least 90* over the steering wheel, not just lay flat on top of the wheel. It's mostly personal preference, though.

    BTW Mark, any more thoughts on RRR in Nov?
     

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