Most liked posts in thread: ALMS - Grand Am to Merge in 2014

  1. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    I've been thinking a lot about this merger/take-over and I realize I've really liked the idea, in principle, since I first heard it proposed. But the cynic in me says if it can be done wrong the egos involved will make that happen.

    As Tommy Milner writes (This racer is pumped for the ALMS/Grand-Am merger), "...this has massive positive potential for our sport." The important word there IMHO is potential.
     
  2. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    The Frances are used to running the show and Panoz doesn't seem like he likes to take a back seat.... So I think you may be right Steve..

    ....and after this whole batmobile racecar thing, me questions Mr Panoz's ......well, never mind.:rolleyes:

    But I is looking forward to watching ALMS race at VIR this Saturday!!!:cool:
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Here is just one sample of the issues I expect to cause trouble.

    Let's say you have no bias for either Grand-Am Rolex or ALMS. You're asked look into the sticky issue of how to merge the various classes, and you decide to start with the prototypes. So, you look at how they compare on the track, using qualifying times by class on a track used by both series' in 2012.

    I just took a look at the schedules and they both ran at Mid-Ohio. Here are the times for the leading car in each class:

    ALMS P1: 1:11.019
    ALMS P2: 1:13.230
    ALMS PC: 1:15.107
    Rolex DP: 1:18.079

    And, just for reference:
    ALMS GT: 1:19.298
    Rolex GT: 1:25.083

    3 prototype classes in ALMS is about 1 too many already. So, how to pare 4 classes down to 2 or 3? Maybe start by combining P1 and P2...or maybe not, depending on level of interest in working with the ACO, Le Mans participation, etc.

    Then, given the PC class was added to bolster the prototype field by providing a relatively cheap way for teams to get into prototypes (sounds a lot like DP to me), it seems to me PC and DP make a great combo. Easier said than done, obviously, even without considering the egos and politics.

    I can't imagine the Grand-Am bigs buying into a scheme that puts DP into a non-leading group.
     
  4. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Bring the level of the Rolex DP up to the ALMS P1 range?

    You would not want to dumb down ALMS P1, but you would want Audi back and other manufacturers to join in.
     
  5. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    While the cost of P1 is higher, it may behoove the manufacturers to enter such a program. Assuming there is an agreement with the Le Mans group (ACO) that cars of that spec are eligible then it allows for the cars to enter more events with a lot of those in the US Market. Toss in a round in China and then you have the worlds number 1 and 2 markets covered.

    Add in the NASCAR marketing to bring the series a better TV package, cross sell with Saturday races at the NASCAR road courses and add another one or two road courses into the NASCAR schedule. Put a few of the NASCAR drivers in the P1 cars on that Saturday too.

    Just think of all those Jimmie Johnson fans that would cheer him on at Sears Point in a Gannasi run Chevrolet powered P1 car.
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    #20 Steve, Sep 11, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
    Bingo. The ALMS P1 numbers dropped when the big manufacturers pulled out a few years ago. There are only 2 (or 3?) teams in P1...I think I've seen 3 P1s in some races. Those teams seem content to run though even without much competition, so it seems like keeping P1 around would hurt no one, even if the field is small. That is, no one other than DP teams and fans...

    I'll say it again, PC is a formula-based class, designed to make it easier and cheaper to enter the series. These are the same kind of words used to describe DP. You'd need to speed the DPs up to make the two competitive but I think it would be more interesting that way with more than 1 car type in the class. Problem is, that relegates Rolex's premier class to a lower category.

    While I think the P1 class could be easily retained, another option is to drop P1 altogether and try to bump the DPs up to P2 equivalent without a cost bump that's enough to drive half the teams elsewhere. As above, let the DPs and P2s run together, seems like that would be entertaining.

    Another option I've seen proposed is to simply drop P1 and PC and keep P2 and DP as they are, as the 2 separate prototype classes for the new series. Very little would change and it would be easy on the P2 and DP teams. The expensive P1 category would go away but so would the cost-effective PC. I'm not fond of this option, plus it still leaves the DPs as the non-leading class.

    I haven't mentioned slowing the P1, P2 and/or PC cars to match the DPs and of course this is because I'm one of those who like the idea of maintaining the class connections with the WEC. I like the idea that European teams might decide to bring their cars to the Sebring 12H or Petit Le Mans or maybe even the Daytona 24H. And I like the idea that teams in the new series might be able to qualify to run in other endurance series races...yes, like Le Mans. I can't personally imagine a way that would possibly continue if all the ALMS prototypes (P1, P2 and PC) disappear, as suggested by some, in order to keep DP at the top without significant changes to the DP formula.

    It should be no surprise that I wouldn't mind if the DPs end up as something other than the premier class. I'm sure this means the France family wouldn't like to hire me to help work out this merger. :D
     
  7. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately your whole NASCAR, Jimmy Johnson plan falls apart when one considers that many NASCAR drivers have competed in DP cars, including Jimmy Johnson, and the stands were not full of NASCAR fans... You see the average Sprint Cup fan doesn't want to see Jimmy or Dale Jr race in another type of race car enough to pay for it, they want to see them racing each other in a Sprint Cup car, be it on an oval or a road course..

    That said the expertise that NASCAR brings to it, is the ability to sell and market a race series as a product, a talent Mr France and company gleaned from some very smart folks in sports marketing at Reynolds Tobacco Company back in the day, read "Winston Cup"...

    What ALMS brings is the panache of the Le Mans car, but sadly there are very few of them. What would be great is if we can have that Panache at DP cost along with the participation... How they can get that is above my pay grade..

    Going to the ALMS race at VIR this weekend, and the one thing I want to see above all else is the P1 cars..... now if we could only have a field full of them!!!lol:Thumbsup:
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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  9. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    I'm jealous. Here's a bit of inspiration for ya:

     
  10. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Aye a wonderful article indeed and VIR is everything and more that it describes...a place that Paul Newman once described as "Heaven on earth" and for any motorhead worth his weight in grease, it is.

    The thoughts of seeing the Le Man's prototypes blasting up through the climbing esses has given me something to look forward to since they first announced it.

    Short of me driving in anger at VIR, this should be exactly what Mr Newman described!!

    ...bet he'll be watching too!:cool:


    PS:Thanks for the link Steve!!
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    Discussions are still being kept secret re how all the Grand-Am and ALMS classes will line up after the merger. However, unless it's just wishful thinking on the part of Don Panoz, there may be a hint in a recent interview that the intent is to equalize ALMS P2 and Grand-Am DP...somehow. In a pre-Petit Le Mans interview Panoz was asked about the likelihood of seeing more Deltawings in races next year.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    ALMS Announces 2013 Schedule (ALMS.com)
     
  13. CHKMINI

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    #27 CHKMINI, Oct 18, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
    No ALMS at Mid-Ohio SUCKS:mad5: To me this is just the beginning of many disappointments that will be brought on by the so-called "merger". I say bring up the Australian V8 Supercars to Mid-Ohio :Thumbsup::drool
     
  14. Crashton

    Crashton Club Coordinator

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    I'd love to see & hear some Aussie thunder at Mid-Ohio. I notice the Missing ALMS too. :mad5:
     
  15. CHKMINI

    CHKMINI Club Coordinator
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    Australian V8 Supercars are coming to Austin next May. I hope it's the start of making a US Tour.
     
  16. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    ..............:eek6: coming to Austin,Texas?:arf::drool My God there's still hope that Hippie Austin can turn itself around, good Lord willin and the creeks don't rise.:lol::Thumbsup:

    Jason
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Administrator
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    ISCAR = International Sports Car Auto Racing

    Though that's supposedly just a placeholder name, it's not a good start, IMHO.

    2014 Class Structure Being Finalized (speedtv.com)
    And so begins the BOP dumbing down of ALMS ...
     
  18. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Just call it what it really will be

    NASCAR National Association for Sportytype Car Auto Racing
     
  19. CHKMINI

    CHKMINI Club Coordinator
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    I've said it several times here prior....this merger really sucks!
     
  20. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    Why is this a bad thing...........been doing it for years in every class of racing except for spec series.
    Look at the number of cars that have to be de-tuned to be able to run in the different classes.