MotoringFile Most liked posts in thread: An Ode to the Automatic

I think they are wrong. Even my 330ci, which had the best automatic I have used, still bogged down and never could find the right gear to be smooth and fluid when in the midst of spirited driving. It also had the shiftronic, but there was too much lag to make it useful.

Autos have a long way to go to be anything near what a manual is. I understand the democraticization of the tranny and how good that supposedly is for people who are stuck in traffic, however, that does NOT mean it is going to even come close to keeping up with a manual on a track or an autocross course. And frankly, making something for the masses usually means major generification.

I do not like this push to the middle all the manufacturers are doing. They are all trying -- and failing -- to make cars that do everything for everybody. I really wish they would stop. If you are going to make a sports car, make it a sports car. Not a 'sporty' car that has a large trunk, 4 seats, a spongy suspension, is not even remotely powerful enough to get out of its own way, and a crappy auto tranny. That is NOT a sports car. That is a Mustang...

If you don't know how to drive a stick and chime in, I am going to derail you here: Learn to drive a manual before you tell us how much better automatic is, because frankly, you can not even begin to understand unless you have driven one, especially in a competitive environment.

 

Oh no John, I can hear the Mustangafiles tippy tapping on the keyboards right now, and they are miffed.

Which ever flavor you enjoy, I'm afraid the writings on the wall. The future holds cars with electric motors and batteries with a rheostat connected to the go pedal. So, shift away while you still can.

Or, there's always this to look forward to, but once again, it's gonna use the same motivation as the cars.

 

I agree. I really think that ONLY manual drivers can really appreciate just how cool the automatics are. I cringe when I read about someone asking about how to know when to manually shift in an automatic, or complain that the engine surges (downshifts automatically) when you slow down, etc..

As a long time manual driver, let's see I'm 40 now, and have been driving stick since I was 15, I REALLY like the auto in my 2010 Clubman S. Maybe it's cause I'm getting old, or maybe it's because I find that I can choose the option to have fun in paddle shifting mode or be lazy and be in full automatic whenever I choose.

It's great fun to be in traffic, shift into 2nd or 3rd and leave it there, without clutching in/out in stop and go traffic, and when traffic speeds up, to put it back into full auto by flicking the lever.

I find that I can take in the sights more comfortably. I'm not cursing at the driver ahead of me for driving so slow causing me to constantly clutch in and out putting wear on my car, lol.

Btw, I haven't autocrossed my Clubman yet, though I plan to, so I haven't yet experienced the BMWCCA autox in an auto, but I have done plenty of autox in my 2005 MCS that was manual.

Richard

 

Both John and Richard make good points. I believe which you chose, depends on the type driving you do. I have owned only one automatic (oddly a Mustang) and that was when I was in stop & go traffic every day. It was wonderful. Now that I don't do that anymore I love the manual. I believe they both have their place.

Jim

 

FYI, I have an '06 MCSa. I grew up driving a 4-speed manual 1959 Morris Mini Minor, moved on to a 4-speed VW, and drove all thru Europe with Citroen, Renault, and Fiat 4 and 5 speeds. I even drove Grand Cayman and its English-styled roads in a right hand drive 4 speed Austin Mini Moke! I think I understand a stick shift pretty well. I don't race my MCSa, but I do take BMWCCA HPDEs every year if that counts for anything. I'm not the fastest out there, but not the slowest, either.

I like my car and enjoy driving it. At this point in my life, though, I can see no real reason to go back to a manual and that damned clutch when all I need to do now to "relive" stick shifting is to move the lever over and "go through the gears"...but WITHOUT that DAMNED CLUTCH!:devil:

 

Just remember that we need to make the distinction between the torque converter auto and the auto-clutch manuals. The DCT is nothing more than a modified manual. Still has gears and a clutch. The only real difference is the method used to change gears, paddle vs lever. All with no clutch pedal!

 

great point!

 

I don't think anyone is saying that Johngo. Most of what I am reading is from folks that are manual drivers and wish to remain so or those who have Manuals and are open to the change (like me) or have made the switch and sharing their experience

 

Well...
Johngo, three points:
1) I've owned two Mustangs. 2001 GT Auto, which is still the best transmission for drag racing, and a 2005 GT Manual. I enjoyed both. I like my MCS better as a DD/AutoX/HPDE car. I will own another Mustang or two in my lifetime. That is just a fact. So, I take mild but not truly overwhelming offense to the Mustang comment. Oh well, to each thier own.

2) You're BMW 330 wasn't a dual clutch tranny or even an SMG. It was an auto with the appropriate solenoids to control shifting, sort of. I think this is more pointed at the dual-clutch variety of transmission.

3) I agree with you regarding having to drive a manual first to understand the transmissions pros and cons and then compare to a dual clutch tranny. Otherwise one is speaking out of thier backside...

Onto the topic at large:

In general, the Auto in the MCS is fine if you are in sport mode and not shifting yourself and Autox'ing. Otherwise it's just kinda meh. The manual shifts are slow and argumentative.

I had a 2006 GTI with a DSG transmission. I loved it. Best damned transmission I have ever used. Manual shifts were instant, with perfect rev matches. Smooth and unnoticed during stop and go traffic and always in the middle of the powerband when in sport mode during an AutoX. If there had been a dual-clutch option for the MINI I would have checked that box in a heart beat even if it was a $1,000 option.

Don't get me wrong. I don't resent having three pedals in my MINI. I love it. There is a HUGE sense of joy from pulling off a perfect rev-matched down-shift at the track and pulling through the corner.

I see this as being analogous to fuel injection versus carburation. There are arguments for both sides there but the fact is technology is progressing and car companies are going to head that way (or towards CVTs *shudder*).

 

Not trying to start a fight here, but I am curious, have you driven a new Mustang?

We just did about 3 months ago and that car was a disaster, both in handling and in ergonomics. They try to do too much with a design that is not meant for the whole family thing. It was heavy, spongy, underpowered, horribly designed inside, and the automatic just sucked.

I didn't even really push it, but the car felt like it was ready to break loose at any moment, and even with a manual, it was a D. O. G. dawg. I was supremely disappointed as I really with the U.S. car makers would pull a hat trick and do something worth a damn, but they fall short nearly every time. :confused5:

 

I might be willing to go with a DSG, provided it had an extended warranty.

The torque converter autobox used in the MINI while worlds better than the slipping belt CVT still isn't anything to write home about. I wonder how much HP is lost with that transmission.

 

Yep. a 2010 GT Demo test drive (read: thrashing) while my buddy was still a car salesman at Ford and a 2011 GT (The 5.0) at an AutoX 4 months back. I loved them both. They were much better planted than my '05 (S197 chassis is actually the same for all three vehicles) with upgraded suspension and sticky tires.

Did you drive a V6 or a V8? Was it a 2010 or a 2011? The 2010 was mostly a body change. The 2011 is where the new power plants and drive trains came into play. Short of the GT500 & the 2011 GT with the Brembo Kit (It comes with nicer summer tires) the tires on all of them are way to skinny crap. That lack of stick is some of the cost cutting in action. I don't approve. Versus a 330i and a MCS (I don't know what else you've owned) you have more torque than God (I'm gonna get struck by lightening in a second... :aureola so your firs go around you are gonna feel it break lose in a turn if you apply too much throttle. Not an issue with that aforementioned vehicles. As far as performance they have shown that the new 5.0 with the 3.73 gears and Brembo kit is one RCH behind an M3 in performance. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1010_2011_2011_ford_mustang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/index.html

Is the interior quality versus MANY other manufacturers poor? Yep. Has it gotten better? Yep. So, I understand when people argue the handling. They argue the interior. However, I like it for what it is. A relatively unrefined, high output, irreverant, beautiful sounding (with a good exhaust of course), CO2 spewing, piece of Americana. :cornut: Hence, I was only mildy offended. It's all good. :beer

Back on topic sort-of: Ford will be putting dual-clutch transmissions in the 2012 Focus in the "Auto" optioned cars. Looks like the proliferation has reached the american economy car. I look forward to the day one of these is available on a Mustang....:devil:

 

Give me an F1 car, and I will drive an automatic. Until then, I prefer the mechanical and physical action of a manual. There are too many variables that a computer cannot get right every single time. A human isn't perfect either, but I'd rather be in control of the car than cede another system to a computer. Automatic climate control is nice, but don't take away my third pedal.

 

Computers have very little to do with the DCT tranny. It mainly has to do with how the throttle reacts to shifts. And if it can rev match perfectly each and every time, it's got my vote.

Only downside I can think of with the current batch is that they will only allow gear selection to the next gear, no skipping around for a gear. And most will not allow you to engage reverse unless you are at a complete stop.

 

Why would you engage reverse while in forward motion?

 

Hey Scott- Remember those old English gear boxes where 1st wasn't synchronized? Dead stop or crunch! Oh the good old days. I am enjoying my fully synchronized Getrag.

 

Ah yes....the fun of having to dbl clutch the old VW while AutoXing!

As for putting it into reverse while moving, I should have said it needs to be stopped to go from first to reverse and from reverse into first. And I do it all the time. Still moving forward a bit and put it into reverse to go into the garage, parking spots, etc.........lol