Engine Drivetrain 2nd Gen S Any long term Manic users?

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by Rockridge, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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  2. Grizld700

    Grizld700 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is the most helpful I have ever seen Dave on a R56 topic!
     
  3. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Great tips - I already use the VP jugs for gas.. was looking to get one for the Methanol also (blue or white).. the 3 holes and washer fluid bottle han’t thought about that. I’ll do that. On a side note, I use my old VP jugs for putting used oil in after oil change. They work great for that.. I then take it to the recycling place. (Autozone).. :)
     
  4. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Helix & RMW Powered
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    I am too lazy to do my own oil changes every 3000 miles. I go to my buddy local shop and bring the oil and filter and a few six packs. He also uses the used oil to heat his shop.

    Win win for both.
     
  5. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Now that is a good use for used oil.. :)
     
  6. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Finally got some today... between meetings for my real job... :)
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  7. MCS02

    MCS02 Moderator
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    I see you have it hid way under the cover. Meth smuggler!
     
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  8. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Exactly.. was reading on the aqua mist site last night and the forums.. good bed time reading there.
     
  9. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Done - ordered the 5 gallon blue VP so its doesn’t get confused with my red VP ones that hold gas. Still working on the 1 gallon jug. I’ll need to figure something our before MOTD and if I do the drive with @Minidave I’ll also have to figure out shipping for the car and methanol.. or a place to pick it up out there. Other option would be to change to either stage 1 or 2 mapping. But that’s no fun. :)
     
  10. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    So, I’ve been doing a lot of read on the mix.
    OK - so I’ve been doing a lot of read on how to figure out the right mixture. It appears the “best” way is to do it while tuning. How did you calculate your Mix (I.e. 80/20)?
     
  11. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    @Dave.0 - I’ve spent way to much time on those forums now..... good information for a newbie to water/methanol injection. I’ve learned a lot already.. thanks!
     
  12. oldbrokenwind

    oldbrokenwind Active Member

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    When my Manic stage 4 was installed, tuner told me map "B" needed an 80 - 20 mix. I didn't ask how to measure by weight, so I continue to measure by volume --- 80 parts meth and 20 parts distilled water. I pre-mix it in a gallon container and add 2 - 3 qts (fill it up) each tank of gas.

    Since map "C" wants 100% meth, I'm not gonna drain the only WMI tank I have, and I'm also not gonna buy a second WMI tank. So I use the same 80 - 20 mix but add a bunch of 100 octane to my usual 91 (max readily available) when I run map "C", then drive around for several miles to mix it up in the tank. Gotta do lotsa plan-ahead to do all this, but fortunately (brag brag) I seldom need map "C". An alternative would be to run 100% meth all the time. Others do it and I'm considering it, but for now I'll keep it as described above.

    If you find a way to mix it by weight, a way that makes sense and doesn't require a lab or science degree, let us know.
     
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  13. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    @Tigger2011 - looks like the pictures are gone again. You mind uploading them? Much easier to do that now with the new site. Wanted to study them.
     
  14. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Thanks - will do... and thanks for the info.
     
  15. Tigger2011

    Tigger2011 Member

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    Didn't realize they were gone. Some of these hosting sites are a real PITA. I upload them again, thanks for letting me know.

    Normally meth and water are mixed by weight. Each has a different specific gravity which changes with temperature. So a hydrometer is used. In addition due to the bonding of the molecules there is a certain amount of shrinkage that occurs (must have been the cold water yeah lol). Anyway, when mixing by volume these numbers will get you very close.

    80/20 - Five quarts meth to one quart distilled water.
    75/25 - Four quarts meth to one quart of distilled water.

    +1 for VP M1. Luckily I have a VP Store down the road which also has gas pumps in case you need a little something extra in the fuel tank. Not sure if this has been mentioned before but.... Never mix or store your water meth mixture in a container that has ever had any petroleum products in it. It will leech out of the plastic and contaminate the mixture. Neither the seal in the FAV nor the pump diaphragm are compatible with petroleum products.
     
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  16. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    @Tigger2011 Good info - I purchased a new VP1 5 gallon jug for the methanol so I’m good there. I’m still working on reading up more on the Manic Tune and using/measuring the tune with Methanol. I.e. how to determine the optimum mixture (this is my first methanol car)... as I didn’t to the original build, working on learning what to look for etc before I start pushing it etc. Now that I have a tag finally, I’m going to get out and do some data logging for baseline. Also, plan to get a few Dyno runs in each of the stages for baseline.

    Regarding the pictures, I’m still not seeing them in the thread.. are you? One way to guarantee they are here on the site without having to host is to choose “upload a file” (or if you are on a desktop, you can just drag the picture into the edit box and it will upload automatically).
    1B4795C4-6998-49D1-8210-966DEF29F96D.jpeg

    Also if you are working from phone or iPad, its integrated into their photo store or file system
    906B9067-9491-418C-B4ED-80DEDFAF85A2.jpeg

    You can also choose multiple at one time
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    You can also place them in between text etc.. I like to upload the pics first, then as I’m typing, just click on the image that is uploaded at that point, (full or thumb) and put it in where I want it to go.
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    Thanks again for the info on how to do it by weight. I’m going to research that some more.
     
  17. Tigger2011

    Tigger2011 Member

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    #57 Tigger2011, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
    Some of the files I have to dig for. I've moved from a Macbook to a Thinkpad as my Mini dedicated tool so hopefully their on the Mac.
    Here's some I do have handy though.

    This is the Stage 2 meth dyno for Vlad..
    Stage 2.jpg

    The is the Stage 3 meth dyno. It takes a little bit to get a compressor wheel larger than a GTX 2863 up to speed. There is a lot more on tap but Vlad is my daily driver. Even with ARP rod bolts and head studs I have no interest in pushing the stock JCW pistons and rods any harder than this. I also have a Phormula KS-3 secondary knock sensor to alert me to bad gas, etc. Just finally found a spare JCW block to use in a build so hopefully we can improve on this a bit. Still need to find a good low mileage head though.

    Stage 3.jpg
    This is the interface for the Cortex electronic boost controller I'm running. Should be pretty easy to identify some of the differences between it and others on the market.

    Cortex.jpg
     
  18. Tigger2011

    Tigger2011 Member

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    Part of what I'm about to say has to do with my own experience tuning Mini's directly and also in regards to Manic tunes. There are several reasons to run higher ratios of methanol. The most important of which is fueling. The stock fueling system is good to about 270 bhp or 245 at the wheel. After that your AFR's are so rich to prevent detonation that the fuel system can't keep up. Methanol while providing evaporative cooling is first and foremost a very detonation resistant fuel with a known consistent quality when purchased from a reliable source. Unlike gasoline which varies from station to station. In regards to mixtures, more water equals less fuel per CC of the mixture being injected. Also, due to the detonation resistance of methanol one can run much more timing than possible with gasoline. Aggressive timing on a MCS is about 8 degrees on the top end and 10 to 12 degrees on a JCW with 98 RON fuel. On a meth tune you can push the JCW timing as high as 16 to 17 degrees at 1.5 bar of boost. On Vlad I'm running 14 degrees up top at 1.7 bar on 85% meth. Anyway, more timing equals more torque, and horsepower equals torque times RPM, divided by 5252. If at any point in the RPM range you increase torque, then HP will be increased at that same RPM. That's also why torque and horsepower always cross on a dyno plot at 5252 RPM.

    Another note on running pure meth. I've tried it and don't advise it. It may seem fine at first, however in the right conditions (hot day, high boost) pure methanol can be prone to pre-ignition. Adding as little as 5% water will prevent that from occurring.

    In regards to nozzle size selection. If your not tuned for meth but want to add an extra safety factor the Aquamist 0.7mm or 0.8mm nozzle is a good choice. For a tune designed to take advantage of methanol the 1.0mm nozzle is the size most commonly used. Also make sure to verify the quantity being injected by placing the controller in test mode and measuring the amount being injected over 60 seconds. You may well need to adjust the pump pressure to achieve a minimum of 500 cc/min with the 1.0 nozzle. Finally, don't forget to periodically verify (every 6 months or so) that the system is still injecting the same amount. It is a mechanical system that will wear over time. Pressures and therefore flow will drop. If it does simply adjust the pressure again to reach the target flow.
     
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  19. Sully

    Sully Administrator
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    Great information. I need to get mine to a Dyno for baseline so I know what I’m really working with. Hopefully I can do that late this week or over weekend.
     
  20. jetsr6

    jetsr6 Member

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    I have been on a manic stage 3 with a jcw turbo map b 22.5 psi for over a year now. I also run the aquamist hfs3 system. I have gone from using a quart of oil in 3000 miles to not adding anything. Tops of my Pistons are super clean. Stock internals with 127,000 miles.
     

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