Arizona ILLEGAL immigration enforcment discussion.

Discussion in 'Politics and other "Messy" Stuff' started by goaljnky, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

    Apr 7, 2009
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    I love this.

    A state decides to enforce a Federal law that the Feds are now screaming the State can't. The obviously guilty parties immediately start screaming bloody murder since this might be discriminatory and might prevent them from committing the illegal act.

    The president of Mexico, a country notorious for its oppressive treatment of aliens (legal and illegal alike) comes out condemning the law, while keeping it's own borders tightly enforced.

    The amount of hypocrisy flowing on both sides is amazing.
     
  2. Batrugger

    Batrugger New Member

    May 13, 2009
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    Yeah I saw comedian Paul Rodriguez calling for a boycott of Az. I could talk about why I can't stand him, but that is another subject. Even the city of LA is calling for a boycott. This is a huge problem in this Country and Az is on the front line. They are doing this because the Fed is not.
     
  3. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    Oh yeah, the mouth pieces on their soap boxes are killing me. "Boycott Arizona!". Even a liberal like the mayor of San Francisco, Newsome, could see that you can't just break binding legal contracts over a government deciding to enforce laws that are on the books.
     
  4. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    May 4, 2009
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    But it makes good TV right..........just ask the OPP.

    :D
     
  5. bee1000

    bee1000 New Member

    Dec 23, 2009
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    You're getting distracted by sensationalized news (which isn't your fault since that's about the only news one finds these days). No one should argue against enforcing immigration law (except, I assume, for all the businesses who hire illegal immigrants willing to work for low pay and no benefits...and all of us who like to buy things at artificially low prices). There is a valid argument that this particular bill enforces immigration laws in an unconstitutional manner.

    In fact, as a sensible, fair-minded person, I am in favor of enforcing immigration law in order to end the exploitation of people entering this country illegally. Exploitation that occurs at the hands of both those smuggling them into the country and (generally) by those who employ them once they get here. We need a sensible policy that allows workers to enter this country legally and for them to be treated fairly once they are here.
     
  6. istara

    istara New Member

    May 21, 2009
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    I work in south Tucson. Most of my students are here legally, as are most of their parents. If it wasn't for the fact that our sheriff here has decided he will not be enforcing this law, all of these people would need to carry documentation with them all the time because they are Hispanic, even though they and their families have lived here for several generations, or risk being arrested. Call me crazy for thinking that's not right.

    Yes, immigration is a huge issue and needs to be addressed, but this is an absurd way to go about it. You think it's not already easy to get fake documents down here anyway? That business is about to get a lot more profitable, and illegal immigration isn't going to change a bit.
     
  7. N2MINI

    N2MINI MINI of the Month

    Dec 4, 2009
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    There's no sure fire way to fix it.. I think it should start with a Social Security Number.
    Make every business run the number and if it doesn't match the name that person does have ID for don't hire them. Make it a huge fine for any business that does and eventually they will have to go home or to another country to get a job. Sure some will find a way to get around it as they always do..
    Then of course you have to have someone checking on the buninesses to keep them honest as well..
    Up until a year or so ago Mexico's number one money maker was legals and illegals sending money back home!!!
    Even if they some how make them all legal, we need to make sure they are paying taxes!!
    Our schools need it in a big way...

    I think it is funny that some are calling for a boycott of AZ.. That is what they want!!
    Just like South Carolina a few years ago when they were flying the confederate flag at the state capital.. The NAACP and others were calling for African Americans to boycott South Carolina.. That was playing right into their hands. If they really want to get at them send every African American to South Carolina for everything they can.. Just like in AZ send every mexican to AZ and the police won't be able to keep up with checking all of them all day every day!!!
     
  8. galoki

    galoki New Member

    Sep 8, 2009
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    let's call a spade a spade. the main issue on the table is labor. illegals provide cheap labor so business can lower costs. the only way you are gonig to control this issue is to find a way to make it unattractive for businesses to hire illegals. If there is no work for them, they won't come. I worked for a chicken company for 4 years. they knew full well they were hiring illegals...it's obvious when the same SSN shows up for active employees in more then one plant at a time. it's cheaper to pay the fine then to follow the law. So, make it more expensive to pay the fine!
     
  9. N2MINI

    N2MINI MINI of the Month

    Dec 4, 2009
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    I agree for the most part.. Fine should be thru the roof!!
    Cheap labor doesn't always mean lower prices to us.. Most of our local furniture factories have moved production to China. ( My uncle used to make that trip a few times a year ) Price is not cheaper to us but the higher ups keep getting paid!!! and paid well.. ( my uncle as well, till he got tired of making that trip. )
     
  10. Wikedmini

    Wikedmini MINI of the Month - December 2009

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    Hilarious Headline: Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law


    really... this was a headline! That’s a genius protest they thought of. (People... amaze me some times)
     
  11. YesIFit

    YesIFit New Member

    May 25, 2009
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    The main problem with the law seems to be that it allows police to stop anyone that they are "reasonably suspicious" is an illegal immigrant and ask for proof of citizenship. That basically means that they now have an open door to stop any person of Hispanic decent to ask for proof of citizenship. (I'm really not trying to over-generalize here, but unless you catch someone actually crossing the border illegally, how does one determine through appearance alone that said person who is already here in the US is here illegally?)

    Further, I don't know how they're going to get around the fact that SCOTUS has said that police can require you to identify yourself, but that giving your name only is sufficient ... they can't require you to provide any form of ID. (The Hiibel case.)

    I'm pretty certain that this will get overturned in Federal Court.
     
  12. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

    Apr 7, 2009
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    But, isn't there a law against lying to the police?
     
  13. YesIFit

    YesIFit New Member

    May 25, 2009
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    Yes, in most states it is a form of obstruction (usually a misdemeanor) to give a fake name to police. However, that still has nothing to do with the fact that the police cannot stop you to ask you your identity without some sort of probable cause or reasonable suspicion. (Which has been upheld over and over again ... hence the reason police cannot use "racial profiling" or "pretextual stops" without any underlying PC/reasonable suspicion.)
     
  14. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    I would need to pull the AZ law and read the details of under what circumstance law enforcement is allowed to question the individual. So far all I am reading are speculations.
     
  15. YesIFit

    YesIFit New Member

    May 25, 2009
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    Here it is .. sorry for the all caps, but that's how it is on the az.gov website, and I didn't feel like reformatting..

    FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.
     
  16. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

    Apr 7, 2009
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    Well, I am not a lawyer, but the way it reads to me is that there has to be some sort of violation pre-existing (FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL) before they can inquire about residency status. The litmus test here is LAWFUL CONTACT.

    In either case many law suits, injunctions and protests will follow. It is indisputable (or at least should be) that we as a country offer a lot more protection to known illegal elements then any other country in the world.
     
  17. Wikedmini

    Wikedmini MINI of the Month - December 2009

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    Try yo protest this in Mexico... Its against Mexican law to protest in Mexico IF you not a Mexican citizen.

    THis World is to F'ed up..
     
  18. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    Hmmmm.... or.... I wonder how well a protest by Burglars who have just committed a burglary in support of burglars rights would go over. I am sure the burglars could make an argument of an economic benefit of their actions. After all, people would be replacing the items the burglars stole, thus creating jobs for people to manufacture the replacement items and generating tax revenue for the localities on those wages and items that otherwise would not have been purchased. :cornut:
     
  19. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

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    I just love it when the politicians don't get it:


    Umm, no. If anything, it is targeting a group of people that makes up the whole of the illegal non-citizenry.
     
  20. Wikedmini

    Wikedmini MINI of the Month - December 2009

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    Well, look on the bright side. This may help fix shitty driving habits in the state, People might start using signals, "move" right to drive the speed limit, come to full stops.... all to avoid getting pulled over and deported.
     

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