Suspension Brakes 1st Gen AST Shock Failure

Discussion in 'Tuning and Performance' started by roach13, Jun 21, 2009.

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  1. roach13

    roach13 New Member

    May 14, 2009
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    I'm running what ever TSW said after the first failure don't know what it is had my shop install.

    I am running camber at -2.7 deg front and -1.7 rear.
     
  2. hancheyb

    hancheyb New Member

    Jun 22, 2009
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    Before anyone jumps to any conclusions, I have spoken with Roach and the founder of AST about the issue. AST has read the post as well. Roach is sending us the strut for inspection. When we know more I'll post back here.

    Needless to say, this is not a common occurrence and we'll get to the root of the problem. AST has 40 years of experience in building track-ready products so they are not taking this lightly.

    Brian Hanchey
    Vorshlag Motorsports
     
  3. roach13

    roach13 New Member

    May 14, 2009
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    Talked to both Vorshlag and TSW both have listened and want to get this problem solved. I've got to get the car apart which I will do asap and we'll find out what happened.
     
  4. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

    Apr 7, 2009
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    Maybe you can get some more detailed pics for us since you're pulling it all apart anyway.
     
  5. k-huevo

    k-huevo Club Coordinator

    May 6, 2009
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    I know when the strut reaches a pro; it will get the scrutiny it requires. In the mean time, if roach13 did not perform the strut install and/or did not witness the installation, it would help eliminate one possibility if he were to find out if an impact wrench was used on the top nut. I use an impact, but I also use a torque stick to limit the possibility of over-torque and finish off with a torque wrench (when the design allows it). If the neck is stretched beyond its threshold of plasticity, it becomes vulnerable to stresses it would not succumb to normally.

    I’m also aware a camber plate build can limit pivot angle and introduce bind, so I’m not discounting that possibility.
     
  6. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    +1 for an impact being a no-no. A friend helped me install Bilstein struts on a previous car and lopped off the top of the rod b/c he wailed away with an impact instead of using the hollow sockets I gave him.
     
  7. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    before I get flamed by roach, can someone tell me if it's normal to allow shorts and short-sleeve shirts for a track session? I've always had to wear long pants and long-sleeve shirts.
     
  8. goaljnky

    goaljnky New Member

    Apr 7, 2009
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    I don't know if shorts and t-shirts are allowed or not, but the driver's pants are definitely a crime. :D
     
  9. Alan

    Alan Active Member

    May 6, 2009
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    TDE allows it here in Texas during the summer.

    I started doing track events in the NE, and it was always long cotton pants and long sleeve cotton shirt. But summers were a little milder.:rolleyes5:

    Alan
     
  10. roach13

    roach13 New Member

    May 14, 2009
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    Taste of the track.
     
  11. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

    Mar 30, 2009
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    Short pants and short sleeve shirts are commonplace in the heat of summer DE's here in TX. I've been known to wear pants with this pattern when going out on track.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. roach13

    roach13 New Member

    May 14, 2009
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    Ok been thinking about what to do to get this problem fixed once and for all, and here's what I come up against. There's the thread on here about the testing of the TSW engine mount. What I see is that it's tested by one person at one maybe a few more track events and signed off, ready to go, race ready. I understand that most MINI aftermarket companies are small and just don't have the budget for testing.

    What I see is this is the problem with the whole MINI after market. We the customer get to be the beta and sometimes the alpha testers. With my car being a track only, never seeing any street use this is not a place I like being.

    TSW has been great and I believe that they will do everything they can to do the right thing. But I'm just not sure that there's been much track testing. Look what happened with me, first failure was I think with Helix plates. When we're repairing it the plate to use is another brand of camber plate. If I go this way again it's going to be a third combo. Truth be told the combo's have little or no testing at what I'm doing with my car. I've done so far this year 20 plus track days and if the car stays together will do another 20. This is hard service.

    So what I'm thinking is bite the bullet and put on JRZ's.

    I'm around track rats and racers all the time and I don't think I've ever seen a shock fail, I've had it happen twice. I just don't want there to be a third time, not sure me luck would hold.

    If any body can show me a car that does what I do I'll be more than open to looking at their setup.
     
  13. BThayer23

    BThayer23 Well-Known Member

    Jun 12, 2009
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    Maybe while you're dropping cash on those new coilovers you could buy some pants that aren't as ugly? :lol:

    What you're talking about, I think that's what's part of being a race car driver - nobody's going to push the car as hard or demand as much from it as you are. I mean, how many trailered MINIs are there in the US? 200? I think at some point, you become the driver, the engineer, and the pit crew, so some of the R&D falls on you. Hopefully none of the trial and error puts you in harm's way, but I think it would be unwise to ignore the inherent risk of performance driving. I'm not accusing anyone here of naivete, but yeah, stuff happens.
     
  14. roach13

    roach13 New Member

    May 14, 2009
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    Your right. That's why I got a Hans and put a full cage in the car. It's a dangerous game. You just have to do everything you can to control the risks.
     
  15. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    It doesn't sound to me like an equipment issue but possibly an install one. Did you have a conversation with your tech about how the clearance was with the replacement camber plates? Also...did the failure happen on the same side as before or opposite?

    You might want to give Barry a call at RRT - they're a pro-level shop that specializes in BMW. I believe they've set up a few MINI's and can give you some recommendations. Nice guys, professional and affordable as well. They made some custom top perches for my Ohlins set to alleviate some concerns we had with spring bind.
     
  16. roach13

    roach13 New Member

    May 14, 2009
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    I'm going to ditch the old set up. Going with JRZ, new camber plates, new springs, sway bar end links. Going up with the spring rating looking at 700 lbs springs.

    When I get this off I'll get the broken shock fixed and sell the old set up if anybody is intrested.
     
  17. Alan

    Alan Active Member

    May 6, 2009
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    700 lb/in springs!!! Are you serious???

    I think the springs on my car are ~ 300 lb/in (TSW Softcore).

    You have baseline times at your local tracks to compare performance? This seems off the charts to me.

    Alan
     
  18. scott@txwerks

    scott@txwerks New Member

    May 4, 2009
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    700 lb/in would be okay for a track-only car... You'd be shocked if we told you what KW's Challenge suspensions were setup with - 13 to 17 kg/mm spring rates (yep, that's in the 740+ lb/in range!).

    Can't go wrong with JRZ if you have the $...
     
  19. PGT

    PGT Wheel Whore

    May 4, 2009
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    the Honda guys run 13-14kg on the street :lol:

    a buddy of mine in TX runs 900lb springs on his M3 track car :eek6:
     
  20. roach13

    roach13 New Member

    May 14, 2009
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    I think the MINI challenge cars in Europe run 1000 lbs.
     

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