Most liked posts in thread: BIGGER is BETTER!!! A FAQ on the Bosch 550cc injectors for R53

I read this thinking of the history and bickering over injectors...

First come the stock injectors. Then, MINI comes out with the JCW, and they....put in larger injectors!

Then ABF, RMW, etc. comes along, pushes the envelop further, and somewhere in that Jan really starts pushing 440 injectors. And the EXACT same debate we're having now occurred; there were many out there saying 440 was too big. Jan eventually came out on top on this one, and I don't think there are many out there wanting 380's with a more aggressive head/cam/tune than a stock JCW.

Things get pushed further, Myne's shows credible data, and the cynicism is palpable, just like it was when Jan's arguements for 440's was falling on deaf ears. It's one thing to be critical, it's totally another to argue for the sake of arguing.

This really isn't a big issue. It's not like 550's are a thousand bucks more than 380's (in fact, you used to be able to get them for pretty much the same price, haven't priced them lately). The 550's give you more flexibility, even if you don't need it at the moment. But we all know what happens--you start adding torque/HP, it's never enough, and then you replace a bunch of components when it would have been cheaper to start with something that allowed you room to grow. The 550's do that. The 440's are probably ok for most, but at the price point, who cares? When you start looking at head, header, IC's and even cams, the injectors are relatively cheap.

 

I think M7 offered the first marketed for retail sales larger injectors way back in 04-05? There were three sizes can't remember only the current 400, 440cc. Don at DMH,George Mini Madness,Don R at Mini Mania, Motion Minis,ABF, to name a few all were playing with larger injectors for more power 04-07?? We all knew than that the ECU needed to be flashed for the larger size injectors for driveability. So this is not a new concept.
Now we have support like MYNES to be able to custom ECU adjust for different injector sizes and tailor injectors behavior a welcome advantage.

 

minimark.........Mynes has shown that the 380's are just about maxed with a tune, regardless of the tuner. I can just about guarantee that if you put larger injectors on your car you would gain a bit of power, but MOST IMPORTANTLY you would gain a lot of piece of mind knowing you are not at the extreme range of the safety-margin on the 380's. I have been watching this thread with a critical mind and have in fact gone to a local German car tuning shop and asked them about the facts/graphs that have been posted. The owner, who has a stable of race cars he mechanics for, was in total agreement. The stock injectors are over-worked on a pullied car, the 380's are at the absolute limit of what he would consider to be a safe installation for a daily driver (mine). He said if he were to do a new tune on my car (something he didn't have the capability to do earlier) he would be only do so with the larger 550's. They would offer the protection against any fuel starvation that will occur at the higher rpm's that a track car would see.

I can assure you that if and when I can afford to start doing track days again, a new tune with the 550's is going to be mandatory.

 

Scott that's all well and good but it simply doesn't match the fact that there hundreds...possibly thousands of Minis with 380 injectors running 15% pulleys or JCW kits that have successfully been tracking and racing their cars without any record of problems or failures from the use of those injectors. My car would be included in those figures having had them and a tune for a very long time and more than a few track days and thousands of miles driving involved.

Simple fact is that injector size is not a stand alone power mod but one that should be chosen for the output range of your motor as every auto manufacturer in the world does. With that in mind I have now added a Cam and header and am at the limits of the 380 injectors. New larger ones are on the way for it. They will be 450s because they will be more than enough for my output. After all Ian Stewart ran an entire NASA season ultimately winning a national championship with 450 injectors; and his championship car was making considerably more power than mine will be..

 

And you completely missed my point. I never said anything about injector size causing any failures. My point was that it was a possibility according to an expert I know personally, not from second, third or fourth hand on the internet. I am with you in regards to my experiences with the 380's and a tune. I have done a handful of track days, although none in the last 2 years, and have not had a hiccup or problem with my car. This is not to say that I never will. I have talked to a professional and he is of the same opinion as Mynes.....bigger is better and safer (depending on use and tune). You may never have a problem. And the injectors are a robust safe design, but you can't claim that they don't have a greater potential for causing a problem compared to the larger ones.

So please stop trying to fan the flames on this issue. Let it be.

 

If asking for factual answers and stating a few facts is faning the flames then you might want to keep a fire extinguisher handy! Lol

Otherwise I shoveled dirt on the horse a few post ago..

 

test for you mark go out right now find a safe straight road pick any gear run the engine up to 6800 for 3 minutes straight . Come back and be this thread expert if the injectors you have are sufficient??

Waiting?

opcorn:

 

Other than the fact that you need to read my last post, there is no where around here where I could run high 130s for three minutes.....lol

 

mark I said any gear... or did you not read my last post?

Lets see... ok here we go 17's say 23.5inch or 59.6cm tires in 2nd gear 42 mph @ 6665rpm hmm this is close enough I think we can except your results holding it there for 3 minutes.

really my point is you might think you are safe but I guarantee you are not willing to test it on your MINI or anyone else willing to see if this is correct for that matter?

The injectors you have will not be enough to hold your engine together with this simple test Mark.

Don't do it I am making a point!

and try sometimes not always getting the last word? :lol:

 

He may not have to have the last word but i feel like i will.

This is a picture of a mini cooper piston that was run at max from a roll that obviously blew.
The owner admits to shifting hard and being full throttle but only for however long it took to get from the bottom of second gear to the top of third.
Did the bigger injectors save him? Looks like thats not the case
So now what do you have to say for your self?
Obviously the 550 injectors are not going go save you from engine damage if theirs other factors at play.
case and point is marks car runs fine, he is happy with it and he drives it often. It hasn't blown up nor has my friends 2002 with 130 thousand angry miles on it with a pulley and stock injectors. So now what.
I guess we should resort to what you have done to insure that we dont blow our motors, Sit it on some jack stands and let our friends come over and make engine noises in it.

NF - Image of individual removed by request.

 

RAFLMAO

Had a couple words to say after Fergie and the Super Bowl were over but think that pretty much sums up my thoughts!!!

 

Easy fix for this discussion, don't buy them. Do whatever you want to your cars. Run the crud out of them so guys like my mechanic can make money fixing them. The injector experts, manufactures obviously don't know what they are talking about, but the internet warriors here do. minimark is not looking for answers here, he is simply trying to discredit MYNES and anyone else that disagrees with him. Hopefully the mods will step in, after the game, and end the needless intrusions.

 

Jim I don't understand which experts your talking about, if your talking about the injector experts at Mini, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, etc...? We/I are in complete agreement with them; they choose injector sizes to fit the performance output of whatever engine they are designing..... They do not do a one size fits all approach but select injectors individually for each application.

 

What experts? Are you trying to explain that the factory is the injector experts because if thats true your just shooting yourself in the foot.
Cause they put 340s in the car obviously not enough for a performance application.
I guess i just need some clarification of your hack job of a sentence.
I have not seen Mark try to discredit Mynes just asking some simple questions that no one wants to answer.
Ive got nothing wrong with Mynes.
Though i do need to go to 550 injectors cause i actually need that much fuel.:devil:

 

Hey Nitro, a few pages ago you didn't believe me when I talked about running high RPM's for periods while on a road course and now you want Mark to go make a 3 minute run at max RPM's for some reason.. In what real world application would that fit????
For a comparision get yours off the jack stands and do it yourself. If yours lives then tell us.. I'm sure I can figure out how to blow the engine regardless of what injectors are in it if that is what I want to do for some reason...

 

wow? can anyone here read? READ MY SIGNATURE! :lol:

 

The only thing this thread has now proved is that bigger injectors or the lack there of can cause threads to close till everyone take a few steps back.

 

Lets see if we can bring this back on track please.

A few things to note....

Going over past history about who sold what injector when does nothing. All have learned that bigger injectors are needed when going for more HP. It's really rather simple, more air in requires more fuel.

Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

So lets get back to the point and not make it personal. We can have a good discussion if we stick to the facts.

Lynn, take a look at the videos goaljnky posted of his recent track day. Watch the shiftlight. Note how long it is in the orange. That is high RPM running. That will show you that one does live in upper ranges when on a road course. Since your car is off the jackstands and running register for the MINI Thunder event. It is close to you. Drive on track in a spirited manner and learn first hand whats involved in road course work. I expect a full write-up of your experiences please.

Colin - even though jiminni or Lynn posted a pic of jiminni sitting in Lynn's car pulling it into this thread was meaningless and only pissed people off. There was a request to remove that image from this thread. I know that picture is elsewhere on this site and probably other places on the internet, but I'm going to hide behind privacy requests here and edit that image out of your post and the subsequent quote.

Mynes has abandoned this thread, I can't say I blame them as it took a life of it's own far away from the intended direction.

M/A is different, this is a place to discuss with facts not to jump all over each other just because you don't like the direction one tuner or person is going. There is room for all to get their ideas across in a manner that is not insulting to others.

So stop reporting each other when you don't like someone else's ideas or questions. The 3 and 4 year olds I was with at a Super Bowl party last night were better behaved than some of you in this thread. Ya'll know better and the membership as a whole here on M/A deserves better.

Thanks....

 

denial

deleted as this was to be a pm to Nathan and I might have placed it here instead of to him.............................................................................:lol:

 

Lynn, with all due respect I think the message you try to get across gets lost in the way you write. After a couple of question marks instead of traditional dots you lose me.

On the other side of the spectrum, minimark's agenda is so ridiculously clear that his messages also get lost, regardless of writing style.

There is no need to blindly defend one party or the other. If you sift through the mud, you might realize that there is no real disagreement here, just children bullying other children for no reason other than to say they are right.

It's truly a shame that both parties get into this sh%t slinging match EVERY TIME. Both bring good stuff to the table. I think both blame each other without ever looking in the mirror and recognizing their own (re)actions sometimes leave something to be desired.

I really didn't think this thread was too bad (as compared to others).