Yep - the tone (pointlessness in the vast ocean of ridiculousness) misses the point, to me. Fair enough. Writers sit down and have to take a stance then deliver it. If we're talking about it, then he/she did a good job. Okay now think of another topic that we agree on that we can figure out a way to disagree on; this has been the most fun I've had on a forum, like, ever. I'm willing to bet we don't disagree on much. I'm also willing to bet that if the subject ever turns mechanical or scientific in nature, I'll just have to shut my mouth and listen:lol:. - Marc
So if the 760 variants are "Totally unnecessary car" where does something like the new Bentley Continental Supersports slot in? With 621hp and 590 ft/lb of torque to move this 2.5 ton beast to 60 in 3.7 sec. And it's only a 2 seater. With a price tag just north of $273k it sure does make the 760i look rather pedestrian.
Hence my phrase: That's why I just sorta feel the "tone" of the "unnecessary" assessment just isn't all that well thought out. That's all. - Marc
No, they are both massively unnessisary... I didn't drive that Bentley, but I did drive the Continental GT Speed. 6000 lbs and 600 hp. Nice car, but not that nice (did have the nicest shift knob in any car I'd ever been in). Another impressive touch, was the 17" diameter carbon brake ROTORS! As big as most wheels on a Mini. Truth be told, I'd have rather driven the hottie that was supervising the car instead of the car itself. It's easy for me to say now that even if I could afford that type of car I wouldn't get one, but I'm big enough to admit I don't really know. What I do know is that as I get older the draw of the uber super halo whatever car is less and less, and the draw to cars like 50s-60s Alfas and other cars from a more classic (and approachable) time is growing. One of the most satisfying days I've ever had on a track wasn't my hardest driving, it was following some old fart in a mid-50s Alfa. I could pass on the straights no problem, but the line he ran was a total thing of beauty. So much so that it was great to follow and learn. On a different note, I've been pondering the relationship between car production volume and "consiousness bandwidth". Seems to me it's a form of bell curve. While Camrys and Accords and the like in huge volumes, they aren't thought about in proportion to the market share. Things like Saleen 7s or the latest Bentely get some comment and thought, but it doesn't seem to have much legs because there are so few made. It's not real to people because so very few people can actually get thier hands on one or ever see it. But then there are cars like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes and a few others. They get attention way in excess of thier market share. I guess it's a type of approachable perfomance (whatever way one describes it). My thoughts here aren't complete, but with regards to the 760 models I'm pretty sure that the discussion has already outpaced the cars real world relavence. One thing I do know is that if BMW hopes to grow to the volumes that it's claiming world wide, the 760i (in any form) isn't the car that's going to do it. That's for damned sure! Matt Matt
Matt - I think your bell curve will depend a lot on where you live. In my neck of the woods it's not uncommon to see Maserati's, Bentley's, Big AMG Merc's and BMW 7's used to ferry the kids and fetch the groceries. Boxter's, Caymen's, Z4's and SLK's scurry about like fleas and one doesn't even blink at 430's or Gallardo's anymore. It takes something like seeing an M1 or Veyron or Alfa 8C out in the wild to get me to even notice now. I'd better mention I inherited this house...it is far out of my station in life otherwise.
This is what BMW NA has come to... I'm sure we'll get the 760i, but not the M3 GTS. Seems BMW here in the US isn't about the ultimate driving machines anymore, it's more about the ultimate margin generators! Matt
And THERE'S something we agree on:cornut: But we've seen this coming for a while, no? First we don't get the euro E36 M3, then we almost don't get the sedan (thank you BMW CCA for making that happen), then we don't get the E46 CSL, so on... What DO we get? Softer, fatter, and more technological. That's why I bought a MINI in '05. Freude am fahren. - Marc
I can't place all the blame on BMW for this, we've legislated cars like these off the roads. The M3 GTSs roll-cage, seats, and lower ride height would cause them to have to subject the car to all new crash-testing to ensure it was still safe to haul your puppy around in. Even with the normal M3 suspension, seats, and roll cage removed they'd want to test it because of the changes in using composite or differing body panels. In Europe it seems you can get away with a limited volume hyper-version of a standard car without jumping through the same hoops but in the US a car like this is pure evil, makes babies cry, mother's weep, and causes nuns to have nightmares. Letting something like this loose on the road, even in limited numbers, would cause the complete collapse of our society, environment, and life as we know it. Or so the NHTSA and EPA would have you believe.
This all may be but the Alfa 8C made it here, and the Maser MC12 came over as well. Seems that the reason we don't have it here wasn't BMWs unwillingness to do the stuff required, but more the dealers lack of enthusiasm for selling it. Whatever the reason, we get the X6M (saw one on the street a few weeks ago), but not the latest M3... Oh well. I couldn't afford it anyway.... Matt
...and the 911 GT3 made it here, as will the GT3 RS (BREAKING: Porsche unveils sportier 2010 911 GT3 RS — Autoblog), and they both drive on the street... Actually, it looks like the M3 GTS is aimed squarely at these GT3s if you assume the GTS price for us would be somewhere around 100k. I have no idea about what it takes to get these cars here, and I know it's not a GREAT argument to say, "they did it, why can't we," but I think BMW's direction has more to it than legislation. - Marc
If Motoringfiles take is correct... this one was torpedoes by the dealers.. Guess they don't see the value in selling something like this. But really, with so few that would actually be sold, I'm thinking that BMW shouldn't have listened to the dealers. Heck they even could have siad" For each one of these you sell, we'll get you XX more cash cows" or something... A little incentivisation! Matt
Don't even get me started on dealers. I'm trying to figure out how to work a column where I can somehow talk about MINIs but really rail on BMW dealerships. I've had many, many severely poor experiences. Deadline is tomorrow and my fingers are itching...
Just call it like you see it... while you're experiences may not be universal, they are demostrable facts. What I don't get is that a very small marginal change in behaviour from the dealerships can have huge marginal benefits to the business, yet it doesn't happen. I just don't get it. And FWIW, there are LOTS AND LOTS of examples even outside of the BMW/MINI stealership networks.... That's why I'm jelous that Nate's local dealer actually supports the clubs with a tech day! Mini of Mountain View would never do such things. Our last visit there was an A-/B+ on the service, but then again, they were so lazy on getting cars checked in that the line of cars went out of the dealership parking lot onto a very busy street! And when I pointed that out, some of the SAs seemed surprised.... It's not like it was hard to see the double wide line of cars there.... Matt
Back the the 760.. Did ya'll watch Top Gear S14 E01 yet? Captain Slow compares the 760iL to the similar AMG offering from MB. Well worth the watch and the I'll not spoil it with comments. Just head over to the Top Gear forum in the Members Only area to download and view.
That was good, and I won't spoil it but he did make the same "Utterly pointless" remark some on here have.