2nd Gen E Most liked posts in thread: BMW's yearlong Mini E trial exposes infrastructure problems

So this brings up a what-if... What sort of a load and strain will be placed on the power grid if all of a sudden we all started driving electric cars? Would that open the door to the rise of another Enron? Will we need to raise regulatory over sight in anticipation?

 

I've read reports that say "we have enough electric grid capacity for 180 million plug in cars" and other reports that claim we'll crash the grid if a small fraction of that number are actually deployed. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle - depends a lot on when the vehicles are charged (there's lots of excess capacity available late at night) and also by location (some local power distribution systems have much less headroom than others).

 

Our national grid

is designed for peak power delivery, that happens in the afternoon. So it depends on what time you charge the cars. If you charge at night, about 60% of grid capacity is available. If you charge in the afternoon when it's hot and all the factories are running and air conditioners are on, there's not much capacity.

Interesting thing here. If you combine time of use meters (cheaper power at night) with electric vehicles, the power generation actually becomes more cost effective, as the power plants get to run for more kilowatt hours averaged per unit time, and the cost of the plant can be spread out over more kilowatt hours sold.

My folks had an EV-1 and charged using a time of use meter. They paid between 1-2 cents per mile for electricity. Depending on your cost of gas, that's about 150-300 MPG cost equivalent. If they were to charge at peak times of the day, that cost was about 4x that, so 45-75 mpg equivalent.

Matt

 

Matt, these time of use meters is something that everyone has, or do you need to buy that?

 

Well, the transition to a smart electric grid combined with some of the "Better Place" ideas and a whole lot of money should make the gradual increase in the number of EVs pretty problem free for most. Keep in mind with current technology and capabilities most people will not choose an electric car as a sole vehicle and the primary buyers of them initially will be higher income households that already have one or more cars in the driveway. I also see telecommuting being a bigger thing in the future (I'm sure Nathan can attest to his strenuous daily commute) and it's environmental impact will result in fewer cars on the road, all cars traveling fewer average miles, and decreased energy uses due to the downsizing of centralized office buildings (why should a company pay to air-condition you while you pay to air condition your house? Just stay home and pay to cool yourself).

 

Depends on the area...

When the folks got the EV-1, the meter was free but it was only given to those that really needed it. That was quite a while ago, and it's really done on a utility and regional (county, city, state, whomever has the regulatory oversite) basis.

What's really dumb about the slow roll-out of time of use meters is that you really do save a lot of money for doing things like running your dishwasher and washing machine (whatever) at night when power is cheap. Without time of use meters, all that can be done is ask for people to lessen loads at peak use hours. With the time of use meters, you save a ton of money to use less at peak hours, and shift your load to off-peak.

It's really a case of letting the market work....

Matt

 

Blasphemer! Stone him! Stone him!
:lol:

 

Ouch!



but in this case, the marginal cost to really complete the incentive loop is so low I have no clue why every utility district isn't going for this. Just seems stupid to me.

But then out here in California there's Fresno, that won't even put in water meters. They have flat rate water prices and no knowlege about how much they use! Totally boneheaded in a state that's running low on fresh water.

Seems that selfishness trumps intelligence yet again.

Matt

 

Flat rate water - HA!

Well, that's one way of "letting the market work" - boneheads.

 

One argument I always get into with free-marketers

asks the question, if the design of the market doesn't capture all the true costs, how can it optimize the best price? This is when the discussion usually turns from ideas to insults....

Back on topic: It's funny that New Jersey has all these issues with regulations for meters. Guess that Mini just didn't contract with the right "union"!

Matt

 

It's more fun being off topic.

You scum sucking communist. :wink5: