Brakes Wheels 1st Gen Tires Most liked posts in thread: Brake recommendation?

I'm partial to Carbotech.

I have Bobcat (1521) for the street, AX6 for mountain runs, and XP8 (rear) / XP12 (front) for the track. All compounds are compatible, so all interchange fine without swapping rotors. And they all have very different bite / dust / noise / heat range characteristics.

Only downside - $$$

 

another option are the Hawk HP+

 

Yeah I need to go over to Detroit tuned and chat with Chad about braking options. I want something good, but I don't want to go overkill either.

 

Are you saying stock R53 calipers are good with a better pad (sorry I'm just learning here)

 

Hope that the HP+ is significantly better than the HPS... Bought a set of the HPS pads for the front thinking they would be OK for everyday AND a quick run up the mountain without changing out to the track pads much as the JCW pad was. In short: They are not up to the task. Fade badly, the ABS is on all the time and frankly scare the heck out of me in the twisties ... Should have gone with the HP+ probably but think I'll find something from my beloved Carbotech friends... and pay the extra $$. Love those on the track!

 

Holy old thread, Batman!

Good for what? Aggressive street driving, yes. But drive on the track in anger and you'll reach the same conclusion many of us already have: the stock R53 caliper just isn't cut out for track work. Call up one of the many sponsors of this site and discuss your goals and expectations; they'll set you up with something that meets your performance requirements and financial constraints. Either that or we can go back and forth on the forum trying to suss out what exactly you're looking for.

http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/vendor/list-by-alpha

 

True they are pricey but you gets what you pay for. I got this thing about wanting to stop when I need to........

Just completed a HPDE using the AX11's all around with Motul fluid. No fade, nothing but great performance. GIR has several corners that require some pretty heavy braking.

 

Yes they are....as long as you don't abuse them.

RSR has to use the stock 06 JCW calipers with race pads and rotors and they are used for multi-hour races. So I am sure they would be just fine, with proper application, for the average track day. I know they have prerformed well for me on my track days.

Depending on driving style/talent, I am sure anyone here could abuse and cause to fail just about any brake system available. Brakes are going to respond to they way they are treated just like any other part on a car.

As to the Hawk HPs and + pads, I have switched to using the Cool Carbon pads from BMW Parts and BMW Accessories | Bavarian Autosport for daily driving and they are head and shoulder above the crap HPS pads. All of the MINI folks that I have done track days with have switched from using the Hawks and have gone to the Carbotechs with much better results.

 

The 06 JCW calipers are COMPLTELY DIFFERENT than the stock first gen R53 calipers. The JCW calipers (which happen to be the same as 2nd gen/R55/R56 MCS calipers) are very capable. They have a much larger pad contact area, larger rotor, larger piston and more mass. Many of us have upgraded to R55/R56 MCS calipers on the front with excellent results.

But the stock R53 front calipers are deficient for anything that involves heavy repetitive braking (track, dragon, etc.)

 

So if one has the desire to learn where does one find all the knowledge to do the work on their own? I'm not the most mechanically inclined guy, but I'm willing to get dirty:cornut:.

 

Richard put together a couple DIY articles that are saved in the library. These are for the 1st gen cars, but 2nd gen (and all BMWs for that matter) are similar.

http://www.motoringalliance.com/library/1st-generation-mini-cooper-how-to-3/changing-front-brake-pads-for-beginners-65/

http://www.motoringalliance.com/library/1st-generation-mini-cooper-how-to-3/changing-rear-brake-pads-for-beginners-72/

 

I followed this and believe me if I can do a brake job anybody can. Plan 2-3X longer than anytime listed here but it is doable. Gets quicker with repetition (like everything of course)

 

Sweet! It's funny whenever I hear "if I can do it anybody can" on this site. I guess I think of most of you guys as McGuyver types.

 

I am a very late blooming car guy so I'm learning all this stuff. Mild mannered fairly non mechanically inclined guy buys a MINI and alll hell breaks loose! :crazy:

 

I realize they are different and agree they are a definite improvement, but the OP states that that is what he has on his car and I was just pointing out that you can be competitive with those calipers.

But I do disagree with the contention that you have to upgrade the OEM calipers. I have done track days and, like you, I have some great roads I can drive around here anytime I want. I have found the stock brakes to be more than adequate when used within their performance envelope and with the proper pads/rotors. And I don't mean babying them, just don't abuse them. Easy on the pedal will mean an earlier application of the brakes, but you will be less likely to suffer any failures. Proper driving technique can subtract more time from a lap than most mods will.

 

Scott - didn't mean to be snarky - I think the poster you were addressing (not the OP) was talking about non-JCW R53 calipers - his posts in other threads lead me to believe this...

That said, we'll have to agree to disagree regarding the stock R53 calipers. Maybe it's the few hundred extra pounds my car carries vs. yours... but I know I'm not the only one who killed the R53 front calipers. Abuse? Probably. But my instructors didn't tell me I was doing anything wrong... up until the point that my brand new set of Carbotechs severely overheated.

Next time on the same track, on the R56 MCS calipers, same driving/braking style, no problems. Could I brake earlier and not "abuse" the brakes? Sure. But why the heck would I EVER want to, all other things being equal????

I can overheat R53 calipers at will, even with uber-high-temp track pads. I haven't succeeded in overheating JCW/R56 MCS calipers yet.... good enough for me.

 

Paul,

I think you are either braking to early, or not hard enough. Work on it.

 

:cornut:

 

LOL

While I agree that the R56 calipers are a step up, I have had no problem keeping up with the guys running them at track days.

There really must be something to the way we learn to brake compared to others, cause I can get the brakes to overheat no problem but I find that I enjoy myself just as much w/o having to jump on the brakes as aggressively as some others do.

I think there are some instructors who are more prone to show you the proper "race" braking point vs just getting the driver comfortable with the capabilities of their car. This is where I was real lucky. My first 2 instructors were racing 125HP MkI VW Rabbits and Sciroccos. A couple of very momentum type cars. They were all about being smooth and maintaining as much speed as possible with as little application of brakes as possible.

And yes, I agree with your disagreement !

 

I wonder how much the track has to do with it, too. I have a friend here who had previously given me pretty much the same lecture on braking technique. Then he killed his OEM brakes on the same track where mine died. Some layouts are just brake killers. Short, high speed straights into hard low speed corners, without enough non-braking cooling time per lap.

Or the dragon driven in anger... hundreds of braking points in 15 minutes...