1st Gen R53 Cooper S Most liked posts in thread: Cam Timing

OK..OK.. you are right!! Point made.. there is NO power gains.. dont buy an adjustable cam gear.. Listen to the guy you like and trust!!

Forget the basic engine physics of the millions of people that have done this since the 60's... and had power gains. Dont read up on Camshaft dynamics, or changing the cam phase.. forget the ICL and LSA for the boosted or N/A engines. How they work and why... stay where you are , happy as a clam!!

WITHOUT Knowing the spec on your camshaft.. you can do NOTHING anyway!! And I am sure from your sig, you have the best that can be done!!

I agree with you.. dont try it!! dont spend the money trying to improve the power of your MINI. and for sure.. dont buy MY stuff. Heck you would be crazy to spend $250.00 for a degreed cam gear with out knowing the cam spec you have... you probably would have to set up all the mic's and degree the camshaft, verify your rocker ratios, and then do the math. NO NEED.. you already have the best thing going for the MINI's!!

SOOoo... anyone else want to pick up power on a Known Cam spec.. OEM camshaft and most all other cams ( save the cam that MINIMARK is running)
This could be the future. ( Cat/Piper/Kent/Schrick/OEM/CB/NS or Camshaft that provide a spec sheet)

Just me...........................................

Thumper

Cam Basics here is a site with basic cam info. The rest is up to you!! Tpr!

 

my .02 from actually having done cam timing dyno's
you are NOT going to see gains all the way across the rev range........not going to happen
anyone showing you this type of dyno graph is not telling the truth. You are going to see small gains either down low or up high. Its a single overhead cam. Affecting the intake also effects the exhaust. Where the cam gear will help you if you have an excessively decked head/block where the stock timing is now off. You can run this vs running a much thicker head gasket to put the timing back to "stock". Much skepticism should be exercised when seeing dyno's that show full gains across the rev range as someone isn't telling you the "whole truth"..........again my .02 from actually having tested this years ago. Having found a cam grinder than already has the cams timed correctly for engine at normal specs has made these almost obsolete.........a reason we stopped selling our own......

 

This is going no place like usual...

Mark, haven't you realized in the years that you and the rest of the RMW crowd have been chasing Thumper over various sites he is NOT going to answer the questions you ask.

Thumper, haven't you yet realized that Mark and the rest of the RMW crew are going to keep prodding you.

Why do you both get caught in this trap?

Make it stop on this site. Go fight someplace else.

I think I speaks for a lot of the M/A Membership that we are all sick of this carp.

The fish is dead, its rotten and it stinks.

 

Geez, back in the day before everyone had to run off to the dyno folks used to tinker with their engines themselves. An adjustable timing gear can be and has been used to advance or retard your OEM or performance cam. Used to dial the cam in to what your looking for in when and how the engine makes power. In the era I'm referring to this was in conjunction with spark advance, distributor dwell, valve lash settings and carb. jetting. You see, depending on car weight and gearing setup for the desired application of speed, time and distance you are pursuing you could manually make changes to where and when the engine developed HP or toque in the RPM range available. Other factors not mentioned would affect results also, the point is two identically built engines will not produce the exact same results performance wise. What the adjustable timing gear does is give you one more point/tool of adjust-ability to refine the tune. Granted we aren't tweaking these engines with the bygone methods and have lost control of valve lash but the fundamental stuff like ignition timing and fuel are still in the game and tweaked through the PCM/ECU during a tune these days. Cam timing is a critical element of engine efficiency and dialing in the cam is still important. Efficiency = performance.
That's my rant, now back to Word Association .

 

Personally I take attention to some threads that interest me, and I have somewhat experience with this topic on adjustable cam gears. Does that make me a troller? Guess it depends who is making that judgment?
I see this thread can be viewed a few ways by many people and not all have the history of those that post.
So lets take it as a positive thread inquiry about the subject matter and proceed that way individually the best we all can?

Lets take these good questions and see if a generic answer may help?

How do you know exactly what to set mine at when you haven't seen it on the dyno?
There are dozens of other ways to dial/tune an engine without the useful tool of a Dyno. And ultimately the best Dyno for optimum engine performance is always a Engine Dyno before it is installed in the chassis.

Have you dyno tested every variation of Cam and mods on a Mini?
Contrary to some belief no one has tested every possible combination of available performance parts for the MINI. NO ONE! There are claims by some of success with certain combination but in the real world total duplication is very unlikely.

How many actual dyno pulls on a Mini have you been physically present at to know all this?
What does this have to do with anyone's expertise or experience except to say that I have done x number(?) Chassis Dyno observations?

Then what happens if it slips?
Ever hear of RED Thread sealant(locktite), a torque wrench and checking fasteners after a good engine run? However life prevails and stuff (sht) happens?

PS: All the information on my Cam can be found on the Revolution Mini Works forum, as can all their cams....


NO the site does not give the camshaft specification that are useful with out a cam card or posted engineering numbers. I realize that some fear duplication but any part can be cloned we have already speculated many that have been over the years. In all fairness to this site mentioned no one else supplies the pre installation specifications I know of either. That is what the cam card when supplied during the pre installation inspection of the camshaft is for. Also if you go to NEWMAN cam web site and do the math (valve-train formulas)the cams advertised, their spec's make no sense at all?
That's advertising for you, the better the ad is the better sales are every-time!


Honestly the Camshaft adjustable Timing gear is not for everybody.It is a part available for some that simply want to get every bit out of there engine even if some parts or adjustments yield less than a HP?
Try adding or subtracting 2lbs air from your tires on a track, or on the street does that make a difference?

 

4-5 hp max............but with the cost of the cam gear, the installation and the dyno time spent doing it............NOT WORTH IT unless you are racing

that money would be better spent on a cylinder head that will give 30-40hp

 

Now Kids...have you ever hankered for an example of Internet Trolling...

This thread is just that.

It's not the questions asked, cause frankly they are good questions. What we have is a person (the OP) that knows the answers and baited someone to reply, i'm sure hoping it was the person that did reply.

What really and truly points to it being a trolling exercise is the OP's reply.

What a shame.

 

Virtually every cam manufacture will tell you the benefits of timing a cam. As for NEWMAN cams for MINI's they do not come with a cam card so checking them for correctness is impossible without knowing the engineering numbers so no one really knows where the heck there cam is set at let alone if you got the cam grind you expected from the supplier? Riddle that batman or NEWMAN cam owners? LOL



What is the point of this thread? The cam gears have been out for MINI's for over 6+ years. They have been brought up many time and I have even seen some here on those other forums and threads which included timing gears. For those that know how to use them there are benefits and increased performance levels (fact). For most who don't than having someone offer the work seems in line?
BTW even a custom MINI one off engineered for one engine and performance level can be adjust even more with an adjustable cam gear! There are so many scenarios on this I wouldn't know how to begin?

 

^^^^ Why am I not surprised we heard from this one too...

Come on people. surprise me, don't do the same old stuff...

 

See I don't get this response? So are you saying what Lynn said is not true? You left the thread up.....for????? If you did not want responses, you should have closed the thread? Norm03s said essentially the same thing as Lynn....was he wrong too? Why are known power making techniques being questioned?

 

Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? I don't want to speak for Nate but I'm guessing that's were he is coming from.

 

IF you have seen the type of Gear I use, and did some very basic measure, you would see the 'screws' are to hold the adjustment UNTILL it is bolted on the camshaft.. then the design of the inner and outer pieces, when torqued on the camshaft actually 'press' both pieces together, making it impossible for the adjustments or gear to move!! Good point thought.. thanks for pointing that out, so I could clarify the construction of the assy I use when I degree the Thumper AdjustED Cam Gear.

LOL Nate we all could see what the first thread was all about!!

Oh, the movies were great by the way..

Just me............................

Thumper

 

:useless

ostcount

 

Great idea.. that is called a "custom Grind" or "custom Cam", give them a call!! but why waste your time?? You have the best there is already. Are you asking just for the masses, that have camshafts that is not the "best already" ?? Good man.. I am sure they will be waiting for your answers from the cam grinder that you run in your car!!

Keep us posted..

Just me...............................

Thumper

 

I am going to start using the phrase "I tested" it works for some that really could't get something to work for them!? LOL

The adjustable cam gear works in the hands of the knowledgeable wrench Technician. Anything posted otherwise means less.

 

so you are going to show your results ?

regardless, they will provide small amounts of power, which is fine for racing but anyone telling you they can set a cam gear for every car with a cam card is someone I would personally run from.....just me and my .02

 

LOL new design of an old tech!! Instead of changing the cam phase by hand. ( adjustED cam gear by Thumper Performance), the computer does it for you under different needs of the engine, and driving conditions.. !!



"VANOS (abbr. from German variable Nockenwellensteuerung) is an automobile variable valve timing technology developed by BMW in close collaboration with Continental Teves. VANOS varies the timing of the valves by moving the position of the camshafts in relation to the drive gear. This movement varies from 6 degrees of advanced to 6 degrees of retarded camshaft timing."

Thanks for showing the people the need to change cam phase.. we just dont have that feature on the r50-r53's right?? It does work great on the wifes 328i !! Again, without knowing the spec on the camshaft installed there is NO way to know where to set the camshaft.

Just me..............................

Thumper

NOTE: If you have an adjustable cam gear in your car NOW, and it wasnt degreed, we will do that for $49.95! Email me at [email protected] for more info on the AdjustED cam Gear we offer. Or see... http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/sponsor-messages/11344-adjustable-camshaft-gears-r50-r53s.html TPR

 

Oh Oh Pick me ...Pick me ....I know this one.:crazy:

VANOS is a great Pizza & Italian Restaurant in West Chester PA. :frown2:
Vanos Pizza & Italian Restaurant - West Chester | Urbanspoon

Oh I also did not get a CAM card when I purchased my Mini when it was new, should I not trust them either? If you had the CAM card from a NEWMAN / RMW cam you could just copy that and sell it as your own new working design.

Really? I can Google and find wikipedia too....

BMW VANOS:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VANOS]VANOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

VANOS (abbr. from German variable Nockenwellensteuerung) is an automobile variable valve timing technology developed by BMW in close collaboration with Continental Teves. VANOS varies the timing of the valves by moving the position of the camshafts in relation to the drive gear. This movement varies from 6 degrees of advanced to 6 degrees of retarded camshaft timing.