1st Gen R53 Cooper S Most liked posts in thread: Cam Timing

  1. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2009
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    Lol. So Thumper, VANOS has nothing to do with changing the timing through out the rev range, because Cam timing is a compromise? That is not it's benefit?

    You can get the same results with your Cam gear, seriously?
     
  2. ScottinBend

    ScottinBend Space Cowboy
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    May 4, 2009
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    WTF ?????

    Anyone have a muzzle for ....well you can guess
     
  3. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    I am so sorry that you are so WRONG with your understanding of the VANOS!! System!! Read it.. the camshaft is ADVANCED when add'l power is needed, the back to 'normal run position when driving, the retarded for cruising and on no load on the engine! This is what allows the cars to scream on hard accel ( my does 14.7 in the qtr.. shhhhh.. dont let the wife know!! LOL), and yet still get 30+ MPG. on the highway! ( basic explanation for this thread)

    IF the cam is controlled by the computer.. NOPE, a mechanical cam adjust can not move after setting the position.. dont you know that, didnt I just say that the gear doesnt move?? Doesn't the r56 have the Variable cam timing?? HMMmmm... dont really know on the r56's as I am into the screaming SC of the r53's.

    I dont think you need to have yours adjusted as you already have the BEST MINI camshaft out there!! And with NO CAM CARD with the actual specs.. who knows where the centerlines actually are?? Cam chain stretched?? Cam Chain tensionar a bit weak and allowing the camshaft to retard?? by the way, all that can be changed back to normal position after you find the specs and do a degree on the camshaft, with the Thumper Performance AdjustED cam gear!! Or with anyone's cam gear after you degree the camshaft and find the numbers of actual vs the cam spec..( oh You dont have that..).
    Just to change up.. what is the lift on your camshaft?? at The Valve?? Are you sure?? what is the actual rocker ratio of your car, so you can gage the piston to valve and spring coil bind??

    WAIT.. I forgot, you have the best there is now!! Dont worry, it has been installed and you are extreemly happy!! Great, yes!!
    For you?? I would not spend any money to see if there is more power.. heck NO!! Be happy with what you have!!

    Thanks

    Thumper
     
  4. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

    May 26, 2009
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    Yikes... YES low oil will allow the pressure to drop and fluctuate, and the hydraulic cam tens can move around, letting the cams to move around.. GOOD to raise the Bonnet every once in a while and check the fluids..yes??

    Have fun with your ride.

    Just me...........................

    Thumper
     
  5. jiminni

    jiminni Well-Known Member

    May 7, 2009
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    Steve at Custom Mini Shop was told by the dealer that Mini mechanics are to start over filling the crank case some so the noise will stop :crazy: This helps the code and the noise problem but they still don't know where the oil is going :confused:
     
  6. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

    Mar 30, 2009
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    Only if they deliver...to Columbus

    BTW, Vanos is also the name brand of the generic drug Fluocinonide which is used to treat the itching, redness, dryness, crusting, scaling, inflammation, and discomfort of various skin conditions.

    I should get some, this thread is giving me that.
     
  7. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2009
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    So for $250.00 for the adjustable Cam gear, another $50.00 for you to set it for me and then the labor to put it in and then the dyno time to see if the timing you did is right, I might get 2 or 3 HP more from my all ready tried and true, running great RMW/Newman Cam. All for what, if everything goes correctly, about $600.00?

    How do you know exactly what to set mine at when you haven't seen it on the dyno?

    Have you dyno tested every variation of Cam and mods on a Mini?

    How many actual dyno pulls on a Mini have you been physically present at to know all this?

    Then what happens if it slips?

    PS: All the information on my Cam can be found on the Revolution Mini Works forum, as can all their cams....

    PSS: My Dad wouldn't know squat about a Cam, he's an Attorney.
     
  8. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    #5 minimark, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
    Sorry you feel that way Nathan but yes I was wanting answers from any individuals making claims on the benefits of an adjustable Cam gear in a thread where no questions could be asked or certain members have been blocked from asking questions. So I make no apologies for it or the way I truthfully responded to Thumper's post.

    The only way to ask those questions was by starting my own thread. I stand by my post.
     
  9. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2009
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    Other than possibly the red thread lock sealant that we know has been prone to failure in this environment your so called answers to the other questions were in fact not answers at all but more rubbish to dilute the thread and we still stand no closer to knowing if it is a worth while investment.

    I do appreciate your attempt at answering them and your kind words on the thread's merits.

    Thanks!
     
  10. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

    May 9, 2009
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    :lol: I just realized what my signature has been for almost a year!!!! :lol:
     
  11. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

    May 9, 2009
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    Yes I know I was very generic with my answers. I also know that a few have tried these adjustable cam gears in the past for MINIs and had issues with them. It may be why some are only offering them as part of an install and not necessary as an individual part? IDK?


    I contacted Henkel and talked extensively to their chemical development manager about the specific application. After using a product for years I was re educated on a couple of factors . It seems that failure of most application similar to the adjustable cam gear where RED locktite was used the matting surfaces were not surface clearance and there was oil residue on the fastener or the receiving thread during installation of parts. Taking a little more time with preparation i.e. cleaning everything with a none oil based cleaner and carefully checking mating surfaces will almost negate fastener failing to hold a component(s) together.

    AS for a question of a worthwhile investment I still say that this is not for everyone. Would this be for you personally, I would say no. IMO you are like the majority that would rather see a higher yield to cost of gains then in smaller numbers.
     
  12. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2009
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    Still awaiting an answer to how you know what every possible Cam and mod variation should be set at?

    What would you set mine at?
     
  13. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    If we installed an adjustable cam gear on mine as it is, and then we spent a day on the dyno tweaking the timing, how much if any might I gain? I ask you this question because you have seen/tuned my car on the dyno and already know what is there, so you have a one up.
     
  14. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    So Thumper, by just looking at the specs from any cam made for the Mini you can tell someone exactly what timing would be perfect for their individual car?

    Why didn't all these manufacturers do it in the first place...or better yet give you a call and find out?

    Will changing the timing increase power across the entire rev range on everyone's car, as it did on one of your posted graphs?
     
  15. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    Your still not answering the questions..

    ...how about this: What is VANOS and it's attributes?
     
  16. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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    #33 minimark, Jan 6, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
    Don't you have a Newman cam? Haven't you done extensive testing? You know what the specs are, what would you do to mine and what improvement can I expect?

    ..and thanks for confirming that VANOS changes the timing through out the rev range! How does adjusting the timing one time with an adjustable cam gear do the same thing or achieve the same results?

    How did changing the timing with your cam gear increase power through out the entire rev range in your chart? If that is possible, why do we need VANOS? How did you achieve an increase every where with one change in the timing? More at the bottom maybe, maybe more mid range or even maybe up top, but everywhere?

    Why would a manufacturer leave that on the table if it were that easy?
     
  17. minimark

    minimark Well-Known Member

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  18. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    MINIMARK.. I am not here to teach the engine basics to anyone.. you can do that thru the net or with a good performance Mech.

    As for Newman Cams.. yes!! I do have a Newman here. However who knows what you have?? No sheet.. No idea!! And yes, I have run a good number of tests on the Newman camshaft!! ( as well as many other grinds) And NO!! I will not suggest any cam phase change for you, or anyone with the NEWMAN/RMW , unless they can supply the spec, or the camshaft for me to degree!! Maybe you need to hit up the shop that sold it to you and see what they say?? Yes?? No??

    Then again.. that camshaft is perfect to you.. so why bother???

    The dyno shows good power thru the entire rpm range.. cool Huh?? You should see what the OEM cam does.. or the Schrick. OH... but then again those specs are available to degree and compare, and then degree and dyno..

    Just me...........................

    Thumper

    PS: actually the dyno from Germany shows the OEM cam power change thru the entire RPM range. But that is just GERMANY... the freaking mfg of the BMW!! LOL
     
  19. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    OOPS.. Nate I missed this... and I agree 100%. I do feel however that it has helped a few people.. I will stop here, as YES it is getting into just the usual back and forth ... LOL and thank you for allowing me to make my point on degreeing the camshaft ..

    Happy New Year all..

    Thumper
     
  20. Jason Montague

    Jason Montague New Member
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    Jan 5, 2010
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    THREAD JACK........THREAD JACK

    :cornut:(08 R56 MCS/JCW 6spd manual) As long as we're talking cams and such..................The other day on the way home from work; 5 blocks @ 30mph, cold start and cold day, the engine threw a P0012 engine code.(Margi has already had her timing chain tensioner oiler replaced once) The 2 possibilities are:

    1.'A' camshaft position timing over retarded (bank 1)
    OR
    2.VANOS Intake: closed loop control fault, camshaft sticks

    Now since Margi doesn't have VANOS(right?), it must be #1, right? The bad and good news is that she was 1 1/2 qts low on oil (procrastinating jerk that I am). I filled her up and it hasn't happened again. The question is:

    1. Can just low oil(1 1/2qts) with a cold start on a cold day do this?
    OR
    2. Is her timing chain tensioner oiler going out again? It hasn't happened since and I've never before(and won't ever in the future)let the oil level get that low.

    Now back to our amazing 'Knock Down Drag Out':lol:

    Jason