Cams, headwork and track build

Discussion in 'Car Builds, Projects, Idea's Experiments' started by btwdriver, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. czar

    czar New Member

    Mar 25, 2010
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    So you've taken the BIG plunge, as you already are aware, you are going to have a difficult time when re-assembly with keeping the 90 degree setting, without being able to lock the crank in position through the flywheel.
    As you've gone so far now, for absolute piece of mind remove your engine/gearbox, re-fit the oem flywheel (temporary) re-assemble engine, remove oem flywheel, and mark and machine drill your os giken flywheel, then have the balance of your os giken flywheel checked and adjusted as necessary.
    Alternatively when you've re-fit the cylinder head, take very very careful and precise dial gauge measurements through the spark plug hole, keeping a very careful eye as you re-fit the timing chain, and just a note, if your not sure or don't know, you MUST fit new camshaft sprocket bolts, with a tightening torque of;
    Vanos sprocket bolt: 20nm + a torque angle of 180 degree.
    Exhaust sprocket bolt: 20nm + a torque angle of 90 degree.

    If you need anymore information then let me know, and good luck.
     
  2. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    #22 btwdriver, Jul 21, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
    Czar, thanks for the tips. I already dug out my stock flywheel and am getting ready to pull the gearbox to remove the Giken flywheel. I was just going to take both of them to a machine shop and get them to transfer the hole.

    I have the BMW TIS disc and they state that you should replace the Vanos and Exhaust sprocket bolts. I thought it was interesting that the Vanos unit is not keyed to the inlet cam. Apparently it can be reinstalled in any orientation? I also figured because the pulleys are not keyed that the bolts that hold them on must be pretty damned important. They are the only thing keeping the pulleys from spinning on the cam shaft. That would of course lead to complete disaster for the engine.

    I am also hearing more about tuning issues that I am going to run into. Hopefully this will not lead to needing an aftermarket ECU.

    Also, were you able to find any ARP head studs that will work? I would much rather use them instead of the stock bolts.
     
  3. czar

    czar New Member

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    What tuning issues are you hearing, I have had no ECU tuning issues here in the UK, you've just got to think very clearly and logically!
    ARP couldn't supply me with any specific head bolts, they did send me a spec sheet to fill in, but they didn't have anything on the shelf to match at the time I was looking last year 2009, however here in the UK, I went to another specialist fastening company, and they produced me a custom set of fastenings, for my application.
     
  4. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    I have not been able to get anything specific on the tuning issues. Just that I will likely have problems. I am kind of ignoring this until I have more specific data, like it won't work because you exceed thresholds in X map.

    I am honestly hoping that your experience with headwork and the Schrick cams is the same as mine, that I will be able to get a tune that makes all these parts and pieces work together.

    Also, thanks for the info on the ARP studs.
     
  5. czar

    czar New Member

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    Just a word to the wise on modifying your cylinder head, remember that BIGGEST is not always best in terms of valve size and intake and exhaust runner ports, get this size wrong (to large) and you will loose power! You will suffer from velocity speed of the intake air, as well as loosing exhaust gas velocity! Once the material has been removed it's too late.
     
  6. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    May 5, 2009
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    Wasn't sure if you were gonna put in baffling or anything.

    I'll be interested in hearing if you learn more about the difficulties of tuning an r56. I keep hearing the same thing, but very few specifics.
     
  7. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    Understood, I spoke with Larry at Endyn about this in great detail. He is extremely knowledgeable about what it takes to make power in turbo charged 4 cylinder engines. I am deferring to his vast expertise on this, I have full confidence that he knows what he is doing.
     
  8. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    That's probably not a bad idea... I haven't given it much thought until now.

    I hear what you are saying about the specifics of the difficulties tuning an R56. I am the type of person who needs to know why, without that info, it's just lips flapping with no substance.
     
  9. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

    Jun 11, 2009
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    The US is a bit different

    because we have MAF sensors as well as MAP sensors. that's one of the reasons that the tuning software was late to the US when compared to Europe. If you do run into issues, you may think about converting over to the European set-up without the MAF sensor and then you could run the tunes that they've been using. I honestly don't know what all the differences would be, but it would be a way to get around the MAF issue.

    Just a thought, and probably a niave one at that.

    Matt

    ps, you're in good hands with Larry at Endyn.
     
  10. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    It's interesting that you say that. When I was reading up on Engine Management systems recently, I thought that having a MAF as well as a MAP would be a good thing. You now know exactly how much air, via flow and pressure, that is coming into the engine, so you know how much fuel to add. You then verify that calculation with the closed loop wide band O2. It's almost like the ECU sees the amount of air flowing into the engine and that value exceeds what is in it's lookup table for how much fuel to add and it goes into limp mode. That or the MAF may have a max flow rate for which it is capable of calculating, similar to many MAP sensors that are rated in pressure ranges. Does anyone know if MAF sensors are rated in CFM's?

    Interesting thoughts...
     
  11. Rally

    Rally New Member
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    I haven't seen any kits yet, but I'm sure any race fab shop could weld some up for you.

    Yah I totally understand. I'm the same way and will be diving into engine work this fall now that my suspension is squared a way. I'm one to learn by attempting, though:lol: We'll find out the truth to the difficulty of tuning them one way or another
     
  12. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    MAF and MAP both have thier places

    the MAF doesn't have a max flow per se, it has a density range and flow rate that it works well with. Want more flow, put it in a bigger tube!

    One of the problems we have is that the guys who write the commercial tuning sw are in Europe and they don't have the US cars to work on nearby.

    Matt
     
  13. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Dr O;
    Since we are talking a little about MAP sensors. And I think I have the correct part in my lousey iPhone pic.

    Is there a reason MINI would have made a part specific to the JCW, than to use a standard S MAP? Mine is an 09 JCW.

    I only mention this thinking there are wider spectrum JCW factory parts that might assist btwdriver as he moves his R56 to higher outputs? Or not.
     

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  14. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    It looks like there are different part numbers between the regular S and JCW versions for both the MAF and MAP sensors.
     
  15. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    Out with the engine so that I can pull the Giken flywheel and have an alignment hole added:

    [​IMG]

    It's kind of a mess in there, I will tidy up later:

    [​IMG]

    It is also time for mr fatty to go an a diet:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here is a big piece of the diet, I found someone who makes carbon fiber filler's for BMW's. He said if I send him my sunroof he will make one for the R56:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The sunroof and cassette without the motor weights 50.2 lbs, I would guess the motor weights around 2lbs:

    [​IMG]

    Some of the extras:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Cool idea on the CF sunroof filler. I would think another candidate would be to make it out of aluminum. But CF is definitely a plus.
     
  17. JDinho

    JDinho New Member

    Mar 11, 2010
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    Like what I've seen of the project so far, can't wait to see the CF sunroof delete once fab'd up..

    Are you leaving the weave on show or painting it?
     
  18. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

    May 4, 2009
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    Mostly likely I will be leaving the weave.

    I removed the transmission as well as the OS Giken flywheel. Now I need to have the alignment hole transferred over from the stock flywheel to the Giken.

    I also boxed up the sunroof and shipped it off to Chad Nelson who will be making the carbon fiber insert.

    Also, Rally you might just get your wish. I am pretty sure that I am going to baffle the oil pan. Let me know what you want from a picture/dimension perspective and I will post it here.
     
  19. hyperblue

    hyperblue New Member

    Jul 26, 2010
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    Looking good, I look forward to seeing this progress :) Any idea what sort of weight you'll get it down to?
     
  20. btwdriver

    btwdriver New Member

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    No idea on the weight. My car weighted 2612 without me in it before I had the roll bar. I unfortunately did not weight it immediately before starting this project. I removed the AC as well as the sunroof and most of the body panels. I plan on converting the roll bar over to a full cage so that will add about 50-60 pounds back in.

    If I dropped 100 pounds after the cage is converted I would be very happy.
     

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