What we did here at Thumper Performance was work WITH the restrictions, lobe / spark plug tube clearance.
50 years of building Race cars and engines, the ONLY way for more lift than .352 lift and MISS the spark plug tube, and keeping the lifter pre-load for track and high rpm was to cut the base circle on the exhaust lobe to a certain spec, and then use the Lash cap to bring the rocker geometry back ( Old school Lash caps/ Wear caps). On our aggressive bad ass street cams, the spec is more forgiving... BUT a car on the track wants and needs Different set of parameters. Following me ??
The V2 camshaft has a .390" lift at the Valve.. Lifter Pre-load is correct ( BMW spec) and you CAN NOT get that lift UNLESS you do it the way we do. LOL or Ding the tube !! LOL
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Yes, thank you for making my point for me! The lash caps are needed because the base circle is smaller.
Please note: camshaft lift is measured at the camshaft, top of the lobe to the base circle.-
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LOL.. you need to get smart here. Seems that you tend to get lost too easy. Why do I have the base on the racing camshaft undercut to a certain spec ?? Why do I use the lash cap on those exhaust lobes.. I believe I said this is WHY we use them. You also said:! The lash caps are needed to make up for the small base circle. The RMW street cam has .396 lift and doesn't require lash caps or dinging the tubes!.. I explained that the .396 exhaust lift HAS a smaller base circle and thus will mess up the lifter pre-load/ rocker geometry and he doesnt use the lash caps. . On our aggressive bad ass street cams, the spec is more forgiving... BUT a car on the track wants and needs Different set of parameters. Following me ?? the V2 , the story here on this thread, is one of our racing camshaft. Read this stuff and stop trying to show off !! You only have half the info..anyways... TPR.
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Real news is welcome and good debate is also welcome.
I want to let this thread go and allow debate but it must be factual and respectful. Several post sound condescending. We are adults and have plenty of experience working on and modding cars. No one needs to be schooled.
Have fun and remember if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen
Your MA Mom!-
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Myles and Dave.. You guys have missed the point made. The condensing probably was a bit over board. Let me try to put it this way. The original post was on MY camshaft needing to use a lash cap on the exhaust lobe. I went way over trying to show why this is done. And the opinions have not allowed the learning . Having an opinion is a good thing. Keeping it civil is another ( thank you MCS02 )
I answer the question and then I get slammed for doing that as the 'opinions' take over. Back to the fact of my name being here..IF you have a exhaust cam lift larger than the .352" lift you have to have a smaller base circle( under 1.180" ) or the exhaust lobe will strike the spark plug tube ( ding the tube ) and the lifter pre-load and rocker arm geometry will not be as designed. That is NOT an OPINION that is " Impenetrability " !! Calling me names.... LOL just an OPINION ! Thumper -
Whine not Walnuts Active Member
Once a person well known in the automobile industry said "Best efforts will not substitute for knowledge." The meaning behind this was that just because somebody had done something for 30 years did not mean they had been doing the procedure correctly and that only advancement through knowledge would quality be improved.
I had my car tuned by ByteTronik (BT). Whereas most dyno runs are performed in 4th gear ByteTronik does their WOT logging in 3rd gear. I did my base line dyno before I had the BT Full Access and it was done in 4th. When the tuning process was completed I had another dyno performed in 4th. The numbers were not where I thought they would be so when I got home I did a compression test. I had advised BT of the results and also provided them the logging data. The MINI ECU retards timing upon certain threshold IATs; at 137 it pulls 1.88 degrees, at 154 - 2.62, 171 - 4.5 and 190 -5.62. BT advised me that the ECU had enacted safety measures to protect the engine and thereby reduced the timing. During my dyno run the tech had the car idling for a good amount of time as the leads to the coil were giving him issues. During the pull the temperatures rose above 190 so timing was being pulled relative to HP but the max torque had been reached prior to 137. This run produced torque of 169 ft lbs.
The results of the pressure test indicated that there might be a valve leakage issue so I pulled the head. I also reviewed my own head prep efforts at block sanding prior to placing the head gasket. The head did have valve leaks at #4 and also reflected heat blow-by due to a poor gasket seal. How much these two issues impacted total power I do not know but in my mind it is logical to assume that after the valves were corrected and I did the proper prep the engine would make more torque that in turn would produce more horsepower.
I went to the speed shop but this time I fabricated a hood that I could attach over the intercooler. Via a dryer duct that was connected to my leaf blower I am able to provide a good flow over the intercooler. This extra ventilation made sure that even though the day was cooler than the ill fated bad head day, I would hopefully not exceed the 137 IAT threshold. All things went well and no IAT thresholds were exceeded. As BT does the WOT logging I told them I was going to do this run in 3rd gear. I heard nothing and the tech set the equipment up for a 3rd gear run. As the dyno does not measure horsepower but rather torque that it the converts to horsepower using time and some other factors the gear used should not create major issues with values ie an engine makes a certain torque at a given RPM.
The pull was performed and the torque on the corrected head came in lower at 161, eight pounds less than when the head had leaking valves and a poor gasket seal. This did not make sense to me and I voiced my displeasure to BT. The answer that came back was that my boost was lower. This same boost issue was used days ago by the BT Tuner on a FB Car Page to an attempt to cast doubt on my assertions that they had detuned the car after the head was corrected.
When BT first made the boost claim I told them that "boost" is a measure of resistance or back pressure and not a measure of power being produced as when an engine is ported or valve sizes increased the boost will go down with the same pulley ratio. After the BT Tuner again tried to use this lower boost value to discredit me I made a post that contained "The boost at 5218 on the bad head in 4th gear was 14.28 with 145 g/s or air mass. The boost at 5201 on the good head in 3rd gear was 12.99 with 149 g/s of air mass. Less boost but very similar g/s air mass yet the engine made 5% less torque."
I am by no means a car tuner but I am also an individual that knows when I being bullshitted by someone. -
Whine not Walnuts Active Member
And as far as why Mike Pinson does what he does, ask him. He is obviously a person that likes his MINI and is not afraid to experiment with it. He has blown up allot of engines, three of which were RMW produced units. As he tracks the car perhaps his assessments of the Thumper V0 was based upon his track times regardless I think it is utterly ridiculous to automatically discredit a product just because ThumperHeads sells it instead of RMW, both of which have Newman do the grinding.
I would think you can tune for a cam but I find it interesting that BT tuned my car and never knew what the specs were on the TP 408 that I had installed. You would think that knowing the ICL, duration and the range of the duration would be important, but apparently not, at least to them. -
Here is a Primary tuned r53 with a TPR Top end kit ( TPR2r Head/TPR ported Intake V series camshaft ) and Sprintex -
Whine not Walnuts Active Member
Pretty sure the guy is going back to get the top end drop off worked on.
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305.4 WHP @ 6300 rev / 279.6 Tq @ 5250 Rev. there is an issue at 900 ( idle ) to 1500 rev. LOL He was told to drive it an then come back for are re-tune to get rid of it!!
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