2nd Gen R56 Cooper S Carbon build up on Valves - 2007 MINI S

Discussion in '2nd Generation: 2007+ R55 through R61' started by cleo1943, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Metalman

    Metalman Well-Known Member
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    Make's sense as my one way trip to work is only 6 miles. Not much freeway driving, all in town. Thanks!
     
  2. Robin Casady

    Robin Casady New Member
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    Since mine is consistently 19,000, and an oil analysis suggested 8,000 miles between oil changes, you should probably consider changing the oil every 5,000 miles. :lol:

    Send some oil to Blackstone to find out for sure.
     
  3. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    #23 Nitrominis, Apr 19, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
    Any water that may get into the crank case are turned to water vapor and relieved through the pcv system when the engine gets to operating temperatures. You might want to read about the PCV System and some of what it does?


    Oil is cheap engines are not.

    Sending your oil to be annualized might indicate a different oil change interval for that time period and condition of oil. It will not give an indication or can predict the next time what the oil will show?. It only takes a millisecond to cause oil flash (black death and varnish,oil carbon forming) to occur which by the time you have your oil annualized again it has done harm to your engines vital parts.

    Change your oil frequently and more so if you are a spirited driver or in a climate that may cause operating temperature to remain high like summer driving in stops and go traffic.
     
  4. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    #24 Nitrominis, Apr 19, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
    The de carbonize method I described will in a direct port fuel injection engine as I instructed using a vacuum access which draws the water into the air intake and through the intake runners passing over the back of the valves which introduces the water into the head and combustion chamber.
     
  5. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Wouldn't a good, long, spirited drive clean those valves off too?

    Maybe a day at the track with a tankful of race gas?
     
  6. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    The problem is

    that the S Price engine is a direct injection engine and that fuel doesn't really wash the back of the valve. That's why the italian tune-up doesn't do the same for the DI engines as those with port fuel injection. and why type of gas and detergent levels has pretty much nothing to do with the carbon build up on the valves that many Turbo Prince engines are experiencing.

    And Lynn, you should watch the vocabulary. Direct Port Injection is a rare phrase indeed used to describe what most call Port Injection or Multi Point Injection with squirters in the intake runners. Direct Injection is used to describe injection into the combustion chamber, after the intake valve. With the increased deployment of the DI engines, I think the phrase Direct Port Injection just confuses people. Not a big deal.

    Matt
     
  7. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    Rare?? Is that a nice way of saying we are both old (Rodders)? :lol:
     
  8. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    Ya'll call using water to decarb as an "Italian" tune up?? LOL we were using water in the 70's in So Cal and called it a "California Tune UP"!! Did it for years and years for city cars!! LOL

    The MINI is a carbon building machine!! If you drive it like a little old lady on the way to Church, it will build up pretty fast!! "Blowing the carbon out" is more than just an old school saying. yes??

    I agree with the water meth.. or a blast of Nitrous, but seeing as most with the carbon issue are not "gearheads" with a system.... the "Foam" thru the dealer could be the best bet... the gasoline?? Yeah sure!! Google additives in gasoline.. and you will see back in the 60's Shell was already promoting a "Cleaner engine" !! texaco- trust the star !! The "tiger in the tank" from ESSO... blah, blah... LOL


    Just a thought...

    Just me.................................

    Thumper
     
  9. Minidave

    Minidave Well-Known Member
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    Right, I'm aware that the injection doesn't spray the back of the valve, what I was referring to is simply getting the engine up to temp and running it hard enough to burn the soot off the valve - in the pic the accumulation looks almost wet and tarry, seems like if you ran it hard enough you could burn that stuff off?
     
  10. Nathan

    Nathan Founder

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    Not sure where you see that but lets get our terminology correct...

    Italian Tune Up - Drive it like you stole it.
     
  11. Thumper460

    Thumper460 Active Member

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    Ah-SOOooo... Drive it like you stole is is Italian!!?? LOL

    cool thanks for the term clarification!!
    Thumper
     
  12. Rixter

    Rixter Well-Known Member

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    So here's a dumb question, I have my oil changed every 3000 miles (5000 km), whenever its changed I shoot a bottle of Techron concentrate into the tank. Am I wasting my money since Prince is direct injection?
     
  13. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    There is a really good thread about petroleum refined chemical additives and the testing of them.

    If it makes you feel good about your MINI then it is not a waste of money?
     
  14. Dan@GrassrootsGarage

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    #34 Dan@GrassrootsGarage, Apr 23, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
    The "Italian Tune Up" refers to the need to rev the engine at a light before taking off to clear the flood that occurs from an overly rich idle mixture that is common to Italian sports cars. I grew up with Ferrari's, Fiats and Alfa's and all of the carburetor cars required this.

    I can also attest to the water method of top end cleaning. I've used several different products, depending on where I was working including Seafoam, BG and Marvel Mystery oil. Water always worked the best, but the engine has got to be hot. It is nothing more than a steam cleaner. The hot aqueous parts washers also work better than chemical cleaners. Go Figure.
    --Dan
     
  15. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    :Thumbsup: LOL I saw this and looked twice! I still use that stuff for all kinds of shop stuff. LOL You just aged yourself!!!!!:lol::lol:

    :Thumbsup:
     
  16. Robin Casady

    Robin Casady New Member
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    I'd always heard that it was something like doing 100 mph in 2nd gear, or redline in 2nd, preferably up a grade. Bill Cosby did a funny sketch about it, back in the day.

    Don't recall needing to rev my 1957 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider at stop lights, but then I might not have noticed. It was pretty slow off the line. :D
     
  17. Dan@GrassrootsGarage

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    Oh, internet. I stand corrected. Here is what the omnipotent Wikipedia has to say:

    An Italian tuneup usually refers to a process whereby the operator of a motor vehicle runs the engine at full load for extended periods in order to burn carbon buildup from the combustion chambers and exhaust system. It is performed after a traditional tuneup and often accompanied by an addition of fuel system cleaner to the fuel tank. It is particularly useful for vehicles that are only operated at low speeds on short journeys, and for diesel vehicles prior to emissions testing.
    [edit] History

    The origin of the Italian tuneup comes from Ferrari. Owners would use these performance cars as daily drivers and never run them hard which causes the engine to build up enough carbon inside to affect performance. Mechanics would perform a "tuneup" by driving several laps around a race track to get the engine hot enough to burn out the built up carbon. Cars before the advent of modern engine lubricants and fuels, often had a 'de-coke' by hand, after removing the cylinder head, as a scheduled service operation.
     
  18. Dr Obnxs

    Dr Obnxs New Member

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    I guess that means that what you really needed

    when you were groing up, was another mechanic! ;) with the weber on my Fiat, it took a while to dial it in, but when I did it was wonderful! But then, this was a car with just one of the suckers on it.

    Matt
     
  19. Dan@GrassrootsGarage

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    Perhaps, LOL. My dad was more of a British car mechanic and into Volvos. Maybe the Ferrari wasn't dialed in yet, he had just rebuilt the carbs and I accompanied him on his first test drive. I didn't have to do that with the Fiats and Alfa's I've owned, now that I think about it. Either way, I have learned something. Might go try it out on the MINI [​IMG]
     
  20. Nitrominis

    Nitrominis Banned

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    When I specialized in British Cars specifically MGs the conversion of the day was with DCOE Webbers. I had to use an exhaust analyzer to correctly calibrate them. The term jetting was fundamentally flawed because of the infinite adjustability these fuel/air mixers had. If a car came in with a rich condition it was always the fault of the inexperienced attempting to compensate for performance issues by over jetting! In the end I resolved by simply installing a 60,s Buick/Oldsmobile 215 aluminum v-8 into their engine bay with Carter Carburetors. This GM 60s power plant was sold to Rover and is still used today in there Discovery 1 and Range models.
    The other model cars with multiple carburetors need both concentrated tuning and careful balancing of the carbs in almost every case eliminated the idle/off idle rich condition.
    Oh and a good dose of water *through the the carbs to clean out the carbon build up!

    * The word was through not in the carburetor. A difference when talking about water that can get into the fuel system from the tank and cause problems in the carburetors.
     

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